[flopsy]

My wife and I are leaning towards staying in HK for another several years. Who'd have thunk it?

One of the inputs to our decision is probably going to be air quality. With a 2-year old growing up here, I want to be sure that 10 years of exposure to the air here is going to have no ill effects on her.

We live in Clearwater Bay, and I certainly have a better feeling about the air out here as compared with downtown (not many cars out here) - but I have nothing to base that on. I assume that during the time that China air is blowing in this direction, there's no escaping bad air anywhere in HK?

Do most buildings (schools) have air filters that would reduce the concentration of harmful particulates? What would typical air quality be in most office buildings?

Is it worth investing in air filters for inside a house, or do they end up cleaning out dust and don't address the real pollution (chemicals, vehicle particulates)?

My real question is - how bad is it really here, and is there potential health damage if we were to continue to stay here for a few years? There must be a high incidence of child asthma, that might be a good indicator? Also I don't take comfort in hearing many old chinese coughing up lungs. Info on http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/ gives numbers, but what do they mean? How would HK compare for air quality (and consequential safety and health) compared with for example Sydney, or Vancouver (another top 2 of our choices).

[Emuse]

Air pollution is bad and exposure to it is bad. That being said, nobody knows the exact long-term effect on health. HK isn't the worst city for air pollution but it is bad and getting worse. Of course the same can be said for the majority of large cities in the world.

I'm not attempting to over simplify a response but you can't realistically get anymore specific than that. What will percentages and incidences of asthma really tell you? Many people find HK a suitable environment to live and raise children and believe any ill-effects from atmospheric impurities to be reasonable. Unfortunately it is the price of living in any large city. Oh, and the numbers on the website measuring air quality... they fluctuate daily based on which way the wind is blowing. And nobody really knows what those numbers ultimately mean in the price of health problems. Pollution is bad for you. We don't know how bad.

[Expatriate]

Originally Posted by flopsy

Do most buildings (schools) have air filters that would reduce the concentration of harmful particulates?

No.

What would typical air quality be in most office buildings?

Take the outdoor air and add some mold, formaldehyde, thinner, ozone, toner, dust, etc. Don't forget to add those coughed up bacteria, viruses and lungs from your colleagues.

Is it worth investing in air filters for inside a house, or do they end up cleaning out dust and don't address the real pollution (chemicals, vehicle particulates)?

How much do you want to invest? Some people have clean rooms to make ICs in Hong Kong. But for that price you can probably shuttle weekly to Cairns, where your children grow up.

My real question is - how bad is it really here, and is there potential health damage if we were to continue to stay here for a few years?

My doctor told me to get out of China as soon as possible. And when the wind is coming from the north, HK is not much different now.

Sydney, or Vancouver (another top 2 of our choices).

Oh, lovely. What kind of job are you doing? Are there still vavancies in Sydney?

[Sino Defender]

Originally Posted by flopsy

My wife and I are leaning towards staying in HK for another several years. Who'd have thunk it?

One of the inputs to our decision is probably going to be air quality. With a 2-year old growing up here, I want to be sure that 10 years of exposure to the air here is going to have no ill effects on her.

We live in Clearwater Bay, and I certainly have a better feeling about the air out here as compared with downtown (not many cars out here) - but I have nothing to base that on. I assume that during the time that China air is blowing in this direction, there's no escaping bad air anywhere in HK?

Do most buildings (schools) have air filters that would reduce the concentration of harmful particulates? What would typical air quality be in most office buildings?

Is it worth investing in air filters for inside a house, or do they end up cleaning out dust and don't address the real pollution (chemicals, vehicle particulates)?

My real question is - how bad is it really here, and is there potential health damage if we were to continue to stay here for a few years? There must be a high incidence of child asthma, that might be a good indicator? Also I don't take comfort in hearing many old chinese coughing up lungs. Info on http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/ gives numbers, but what do they mean? How would HK compare for air quality (and consequential safety and health) compared with for example Sydney, or Vancouver (another top 2 of our choices).

i don't think you have anything to worry about. the population in hong kong has the second longest life expectancy in the world. for females, it's the longest (84.5) in the world. for males, it's second (78.9) to japan. overall, it's second after japan with an average life expectancy of (81.59). it is expected to overtake japan in 2030 with the world's longest life expectancy.

its population also has the highest average iq of 107 in the world.

if people can live that long with a high iq, there's nothing for u to worry about.

[antelope123]

Just because HK has a high life expectancy at the moment doesn't mean it will remain this way. Pollution is worse now than ever - the bulk of China contributions are very recent. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see lung cancer rates and deaths will start to increase in 5 or 10 years, and your theory will be proven wrong.

I talked with a local HK doctor on a plane last month and she said that the 'black nodules' they are finding in lungs in autopsies these days are much worse than ever before. Any doctors on this board that can comment?

So for you to say 'nothing to worry about' is too simplistic and you don't seem to be factoring in recent worsening of the situation.

I also have no respect for the argument "If you don't like it, then leave". I think there's plenty of room to talk about solutions instead of just put blinders on your eyes and pretend like this isn't a real problem that will have to be faced. Hong Kong will benefit in many ways - both financially and with increased respect from the world if we figure it out. The opposite will happen if nothing improves. If the best answer someone can come up with is to tell others to leave, they many will indeed take their money, investment, and jobs elsewhere.

[z754103]

Originally Posted by antelope123

If the best answer someone can come up with is to tell others to leave, they many will indeed take their money, investment, and jobs elsewhere.

Which, sadly, they are now doing.

[PDLM]

But isn't this nature restoring a balance? People leave and so the pollution will be reduced...

[Sino Defender]

Originally Posted by antelope123

Just because HK has a high life expectancy at the moment doesn't mean it will remain this way. Pollution is worse now than ever - the bulk of China contributions are very recent. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see lung cancer rates and deaths will start to increase in 5 or 10 years, and your theory will be proven wrong.

I talked with a local HK doctor on a plane last month and she said that the 'black nodules' they are finding in lungs in autopsies these days are much worse than ever before. Any doctors on this board that can comment?

So for you to say 'nothing to worry about' is too simplistic and you don't seem to be factoring in recent worsening of the situation.

I also have no respect for the argument "If you don't like it, then leave". I think there's plenty of room to talk about solutions instead of just put blinders on your eyes and pretend like this isn't a real problem that will have to be faced. Hong Kong will benefit in many ways - both financially and with increased respect from the world if we figure it out. The opposite will happen if nothing improves. If the best answer someone can come up with is to tell others to leave, they many will indeed take their money, investment, and jobs elsewhere.

yet, the life expectancy is still increasing and is expected to overtake japan in 2030. lung diseases have mroe to do with personal habits such as smoking than the air pollution. personally, i dun think the air pollution is that bad at all. is it really that bad?
i can't notice any difference between hk and boston.
yet, in hk, the diet is much healthier, and that is a much bigger factor imho.

i would say more than 90 percent of the world's population lives in a much more polluted environment than that of hong kong without even clean water or food. the majority of the world still lives in developing countries.

yet, air pollution isn't just a problem to hong kong. you are talking like hk is the only place with that problem and the rest of the world doesn't. the world will judge hk on this and that as other people are the standards and judges.

have u ever driven in los angeles/nyc with windows open?

well, if you wanna compare hk to say, greenfield, massachusetts. yeah, i would say greenfield, massachusetts has much less air pollution. yet, they haven't benefited from this financially as well as biologically. they have the highest unemployment rate in the state of ma and the us does not have the highest life expectancy. many people blame the diet as the major factor.

[Petesy]

Originally Posted by flopsy

We live in Clearwater Bay, and I certainly have a better feeling about the air out here as compared with downtown (not many cars out here) - but I have nothing to base that on. I assume that during the time that China air is blowing in this direction, there's no escaping bad air anywhere in HK?

Generally the pollution is blown to the west side of Hong Kong in winter, and you are on the east. Plus the mountains shield a lot of it from your area.

[z754103]

Originally Posted by PDLM

But isn't this nature restoring a balance? People leave and so the pollution will be reduced...

Not when a lot of the problem comes from across the border or from weak environmental regulations on the local power plants. Just look at the difference when CNY comes and the mainland factories take a week off.