[applefan]

Hi all,

I'm a HK native with American citizenship currently working for a big bank in the U.S. My group has recently gotten more involved with businesses in Asia and I raised my hand and asked my boss to create a position for me in HK. I put together a business plan for them and everything seems to be going well. We are now at a stage where we are ironing out details, including pay, relocation, etc. My immediate supervisor (who will still be managing me when I'm in HK) had a bad experience with getting the bank pay her relocation when she moved within two U.S. cities before and, as such, has a theory that I shouldn't get relocation. I know the head of my group would NOT have a problem paying relocation at all. My group has previously pushed two other people out due to poor performances. One was relocated to another U.S. city and another was moved to HK. Both got full relocation package. I feel like since I will be of significant value added to them by being in Hk, if those people got full relocation package, I should at least get partial package. If I don't go with my bank and instead try to get a job in HK, do banks usually pay for relocation? I'm not even asking for an expat package or any salary adjustment. Thanks!

[SalseroHK]

they want to relocate you from US to HK and don't pay your relocation???

No way!!
they should at least pay the following:
your flight, 1 or 2 flights back to US/year, moving your personal items

anything more (like moving your furniture) is optional (I would not recommend moving your furniture anyway)

other banks don't usually pay relocation packages, only in exceptional cases when you have REALLY HOT skills (no, I don't know what these skills are in banks currently, pls contact the recruitment agencies for that)

but honestly I would worry more about your boss than about your relocation. if she even can't comprehend the necessity of a relocation package when moving you around the world, this smells like more trouble further down the road (e.g. when the first problems arise e.g. with cultural differences and when not everything is going as smoothly as in your business plan). has she managed someone 16 hours away? If not, be prepared for lots of phone calls during the night.

just my 2 cents.
good luck!

[applefan]

My immediate manager is the problem and she constantly claims how she used to manage a team in Asia before. I know that the head of our group will not have a problem with paying relocation (or at least everything I've known about him would lead me to think that). They would pay for trips back to the U.S. because I need to report back to them anyway. The bank's typical relocation package includes paying for your realtor/closing costs when you sell a house here which could literally be tens of thousands of US dollars. My manager claims that since I initiated the move, I shouldn't be eligible for relocation. Not that I agree because I will be providing more to the group than in my current capacity. I am already prepared for lots of calls during the night. It's just how this group functions!

[newbee]

Hi AppleFan,

I fully agree with the other postings,
You really should get, at the very least some form of relocation package.

I would have thought that there would be some form of doctrine or written policy.

Perhaps you can check with HR?

I'm also in your shoes, working in a large financial house in NYC, and when I was posted, my boss didn't even know any details of my package: it was you're going, and then HR just told me the details of my move.

What I'm trying to say is that most firms (especially large MNC's) have HR doctrine's dictating such policy.

Good luck!!

Good luck!

[applefan]

Newbee:

Thanks for your posting. I agree with you and SalseroHK that I should get something and I too thought there would be some standard HR policy except I'm not so sure I'd actually get it. I am with a large MNC. I talked to a friend of mine who also works for our bank. She asked to move to Florida for personal reason (and does her job remotely) and she didn't get relocation either. The same thing was apparently true with my manager when she asked to move. I don't even know if I can now go back to them and say if you're not paying for relo then I'm not moving since I was the one who asked to move! Believe it or not, I actually can't sleep because of this!

Since you're in the same boat, would you mind giving me some tips as to what I should look for other than the following: closing costs, transportation, moving of personal belongings, temp housing. Should I see if they could pay my rent for me directly from my paycheck so it becomes a "housing allowance" for tax purposes?

Thanks!

[newbee]

Hi Applefan,

Can't sleep? That kinda sucks!
Don't let it go down on you.

Well, to be honest, as my name suggests, I'm very junior in my company (i'm in my very early 20's, and out of university), but because my division is 'hot', i'm getting shipped off immediately, so I'm really not so good witheverything at all.

There are a lot of helpful people on this blog who are much more senior than me, and whom I suspect might be actually my co-workers, hence I will not reveal too much.

From what I understand, as long as you can prove that you're using the money for rent (and it's specified in your contract it's a housing allowance, it's partially deductible. (have to gross up 1.1 times)

For example, if your base pay is 100k and housing is 20k, and you use all of your housing, your taxable income is 100*1.1=110k.
Therefore you will be paying tax on 110k instead of 120k for income tax purposes.

Because i'm relatively junior, I'm only getting a lumpsum shipping allowance (it's pretty large though) and airtickets, housing is included too. but i have no family, dogs, children, etc. just me. so maybe that's why they choose me. =)

With regards to looking for a house, I actually will start work the minute i land, I don't think my bosses in HK are going to give me anytime whatsoever to look for an apartment =( (i'm still at work and it's 1am on a saturday)
just like you, i'm actually working with the mother ship more than with HK. so that will mean late nights with my blackberry?
i wonder why i'm being sent so far away??

well, good luck. write to me if you have any questions.
i'm actually not even in HK yet. Only moving in a couple of months!

[cosmokat]

Hi Applefan,

In the two instances you cited regarding colleagues who decided to move to another state for personal reasons and are now working remotely - I would have to agree that the company shouldn't have to pay any type of relocation packages in these cases - they were lucky that the company valued them enough to retain them and allow them to work remotely. It does sound like your situation is a bit different though. If your company agreed to set up a site in HK and also that you would be the ideal candidate to help them accomplish this (even if it was your initiation) - then you absolutely should get some sort of relocation assistance. Would you be moving to HK regardless if the company agreed to create this position for you?

[applefan]

Newbee: I hope you're not still in your office. Thanks also for sharing your situation with me. I'm more "senior" but still not senior, if you know what I mean. I got my MBA six years ago and have been at my current job for five. I pretty much have figured out that I need to go above my current supervisor to ask for relocation and now I have to figure out when the right time to do that is. I don't want to be perceived as going above my supervisor because ultimately I have to report to her but I don't really have a choice. Have you gotten any quotes on shipping?

Since I grew up in HK and worked there for several years, let me know how I can help with your move.

CosmoKat: I'd like to move to HK no matter what but I'm not 100% sure I'd still move there if my company doesn't move me. You're right in that one of my friends moved to another state for personal reason and she's doing the exact same job she had if she had stayed. She's more than grateful that our bank has allowed her to work remotely. And you're right that my situation is somewhat different -- I will actually be doing something more than what I"m doing now and doing something for the group that I think they really need. We'll see what happens.

[nation]

Applefan - Is the manager you are reporting to also your administrative manager? By that I mean is she actively involved in your setting your contract terms, including your salary package. You'll find a lot of managers actually have little clout when it comes to agreeing salaries (initially or at salary reviews) and if any, it's merely a suggestion to the divisional head. And the ability of your divisional head to affect your package is really dependant on the structure of your organisation. Seeing your company is a large MNC they'd be all too familiar with, and be aware, of the prevailence of relocation monies for intl transfers. To the extent that you can put together a solid business case for your transfer to HK I'd be surprised if they don't agree to a reasonable relocation payment, just don't expect a juicy expat package. I doubt your immediate manager would have much of an impact on this, however take what I'm saying with a grain of salt not knowing how your company.

[applefan]

Thanks everyone for their input! I have a few more questions and hoping someone could help answer them:

1. If I have a choice (which I'm not sure I do), is there any benefit to being paid in USD vs HKD?

2. Can I still participate in 401(k) plans, etc?

3. Anyone know much about the foriegn housing exclusion for U.S. tax purposes and can explain it more to me?

4. Do I go with the healthcare plan offered by the local office?

5. Anything else I need to know?

Thanks!!