[gaston]

Greetings everyone,
I have followed the forums for a while now without posting. Time to join in, let's start with the problems!

Have lived in HK for a while now, about six months. I am a westerner ok, not from the english speaking world but making an effort in my second language. Its not going well, people are driving me nuts, seriously, I need professional help. This is supposed to be an ex-british colony with ambitions to be a world city. The rudeness of some people! Mygod. I am a grown man, good job, wife (HK Chinese) and young child so life should be good ok? I am now reduced to a shivering wreck, I even bought a hood and a ipod to escape the world outside. Even declined a family get-together in a Chinese restaurant today because I know what will happen. Honestly! How do you guys cope, what is the trick?

Its not the weather (although summer was tough)
Its not the noise, pollution or stress.
Its not living abroad, have done that before.

I think it is the complete rudeness, the feeling that no-one really cares under the glossy surface. the near rasism against westerners. The staring, the way people ignore you when you try to order food in a restaurant and instead talks to my (HK born) wife in Chinese as if I was unable to speak. Come on, I KNOW they speak english, we all do, even non-UK/US foreigners! The way I can start a conversation topic at a dinner table, and people directly start a 20 min discussion in Chinese including talking about you, point at you, laughing at you. And expect me to share the fun? The fact you never get real information, only various degrees of lies or selected filtered information. It gets worse in China, where I spend a few days a week working. Don't get me started on spitting, throat-clearing, food hygiene and toilets or traffic.

Ok, I have read the other threads and I agree totally, it is about different cultures. I can't change a billion Chinese, I must change myself. Learning the language is a start.

But at the moment, I feel like punching peoples face in as soon as I walk outside my house. Cant be right, can it. How many of you have similar problems, how many expats seek counselling help for example? How many actually make an effort learning Cantonese (to better fit into daily HK life).

Who want to share their experience?

I also need a tennis partner...

Cheers

[Katharine]

Dear Gaston,

You sound very frustrated and angry and although I can sympathize with some of what you say, I have a questions about some of the things that are bothering you.

I am from the US and have been here for almost six months. I agree that there is a certain amount of rudeness; particularly the staring. It's something that I've learned to cope with by changing the way I maneuver myself through my day. When I walk down the street in my totally-Chinese neighborhood, I look at the ground. I absolutely won't make eye contact or look at the faces of the people on the street anymore because I learned that if I do they stare at me and make faces as though I were a grotesque monster in their midst. So now I am comfortable walking around because I choose to look away. I have also been the victim of several people (mostly old men) cringing and moving away from me as though I were infected with the plague. I've gotten angry and I've wanted to scream at them, but of course that would serve no purpose but to reassure them that their reactions were warranted. So I just ignore them. It doesn't stop them staring, I assume - but since I don't see them staring it doesn't bother me.

I work at a Chinese company where everyone speaks English (or at least, they know how) and most of the time they are considerate if I'm in their company and will translate or will switch to English rather than Cantonese. I think that a lot of people who know English here in Hong Kong are just too shy to use it. I can understand that because I know how I feel when I attempt to say something in Cantonese. It's scary.

What I'd like to know is what your wife does when you are at these family gatherings and everyone is speaking Cantonese and laughing and pointing. Does she encourage them to speak English? Does she translate for you? Perhaps I misunderstood - she is there with you when this is happening, is she not?

I don't know what percentage of people seek therapy, but I imagine that more than a few do. It is very difficult for me sometimes to be in this country where I only know people from work and on the weekends when I am lonely and need to talk to my friends or family in the US, I can't because of the ridiculous time difference. My mom keeps encouraging me to try to find American friends, but I've never been very good at going out seeking friendships and I don't go to pubs or bars, so it's been really hard.

You ask how many people make an effort to learn Cantonese to help fit it. Well, I'm one. I've bought the Pimsleur Cantonese CDs and am working on that. When I am at the office, I try out some of my Cantonese on the friendly people who work with me and they are so helpful and we all have a laugh at my attempts, but it's okay because it's friendly. One woman said, "We help you with Cantonese and you help us with English."

I'm sorry that you feel so angry, but I think some of that is normal. In fact, I read a book that talked about different phases that people go through when they are trying to get along in a foreign country and one of the phases was anger - and lashing out at the culture. I'm not saying that's what you're doing - I'm just saying that perhaps you are going through a normal process.

I hope that knowing that you are not alone in your experience helps a little. When I go to a restaurant with a friend and the waiter ignores me and talks to my friend, I try to pay attention to what they're saying and see if I can learn a little. I don't take it personally, and neither should you. I used to teach children from Latin American countries and one of the biggest hurdles they had to deal with in terms of their new English language was getting over the fear of actually speaking. It's scary and I think that most of the Hong Kong people that you've had problems with are just wary. I've found most shop owners here to be very friendly, however. Hope some of this helped.

Katharine

[KnowItAll]

Unfortunately, I don't know how to respond... I cannot seem to find any common ground here in my experience and yours.

Contact the author of this article, she may be able to help...
http://www.geoexpat.com/hong-kong/ex...11out-feeling/

Various versions of this article can be found online

http://www.americanvlaai.com/cultureshock6.htm

[LAW]

Gaston,

I found myself laughing out loud at your post. Only because, when I am having a bad day, or when I have been in town for too long 80% of the things which are driving you crazy also drive me crazy.

Learning Cantonese/Mandarin will help no end. It's almost like opening up a door to a new world. You find out so much more and I honestly believe you get treated differently.

I always consider it a show of respect to learn the language of the country that I am in. Not pointing any fingers because my cantonese & mandarin are somewhat lacking. Although my basics are sweet enough to eat what I want and go where I need to whilst being polite.

It's kind of like being in parts of Brazil and Mexico and not speaking portuguese and spanish. You may very well go hungry, get lost or a combination of the two. Even if you have a bloody good stab at learning you'll always encounter nice people around to help you along and give you a smile for your efforts.

As for the staring......can't help I'm afraid. Unless you are a very plain looking local you will be stared at. If you are a decent looking girl or don't look like the average Joe walking down the street....eyes will be on you. Take it as a compliment that you stand out...otherwise you will go crazy, trust me.

Just wondering where you are actually from and what level of tennis you play at because I wouldn't mind someone to hit with now and again?

Cheers and perhaps try www.podtroplis.com to keep your ipod full on your trips to china.

[jayinhongkong]

i understand exactly how you feel. i cringed when i had to come back here from the US. but hey, it's not so bad. we have to adapt, right? make some friends man. learning cantonese helps NO END! chinese people are often really friendly if you initiate a conversation....breaking the ice can often work wonders for you man. Since your wife is HK Chinese and you live here, you definitely should be learning Cantonese Get her to teach you! If you learn about the culture and learn some scarily local phrases, you'll get respect. If you bust out with a MEIYAH? DIU! or AIYAH! every once in a while, they'll eye you with caution and hold their tongues...lol.

when in rome, do as the romans do..

[cerberus]

Hk's a lot better than many parts of mainland china as far as racism goes and usually caucasians will be ignored. however, scratch that surface and yes, it's basically the same racist treatment. and why not try to change people? be an emissary of good will and help fight the ignorace that threatens our world, not just here, but everywhere. i have neighbors who were nice to me until one day when we were both talking to management here and they couldn't stop describing me as "gweilo". the word was uttered at least ten times in what was supposed to be a friendly conversation. why not call you/me "that guy" or "him"? coz racism is in the blood here, it's so profound many don't even know they're being like that.
two things you need to do: raise people's attention to how you feel (unless they're total a-holes, then of course there's no point) and focus on the majority that are, as everywhere, at least decent enough to get along with.

[Pokfulam]

Just take a deep breath, smile, and say something nice. Then pause.

It works every time.

[jimbo]

Yep I had to laugh too when I read the thread.

Its like the Tourists that go to a foreign country and wonder why they don't speak English like they do! You have to make an effort you're in there country not your home country!

Calling somebody a gweilo is not rude at all, Its just everyday slang and easier for the older generation to describe a westerner thats all.

Being a british born chinese I have seen and experienced worse racism than that growing up in a provincial town like Bristol and alledged multicultural hubs such as London.

Why is it that people seem to complain about the locals and expecting them to adjust to your needs when it should be the other way round, You're a visitor/guest in there country and should respect there lifestyle/culture.

[Mat]

geezzzze man, relax, take a beer and breath....I am also foreigner (non english speaking country), my wife to be (more than 3 years together) is also chinese, some ppl already stared at me, some already spat...but whatever..I enjoy my time here....when with her family they mostly speak chinese (and it is a big family) but after a while I start to understand the topics and my gf translate when I get really lost....as for the rudeness...well not that much guys...some are actually pretty nice..just smile....when you smile things always become easier....

[Mat]

Originally Posted by cerberus

coz racism is in the blood here, it's so profound many don't even know they're being like that.

Cerberus..thanks....that's a good one :-) racism in the blood....hehe really good !