[Bogs]

Originally Posted by gaston

Greetings everyone,
I have followed the forums for a while now without posting. Time to join in, let's start with the problems!

Have lived in HK for a while now, about six months. I am a westerner ok, not from the english speaking world but making an effort in my second language. Its not going well, people are driving me nuts, seriously, I need professional help. This is supposed to be an ex-british colony with ambitions to be a world city. The rudeness of some people! Mygod. I am a grown man, good job, wife (HK Chinese) and young child so life should be good ok? I am now reduced to a shivering wreck, I even bought a hood and a ipod to escape the world outside. Even declined a family get-together in a Chinese restaurant today because I know what will happen. Honestly! How do you guys cope, what is the trick?

Its not the weather (although summer was tough)
Its not the noise, pollution or stress.
Its not living abroad, have done that before.

I think it is the complete rudeness, the feeling that no-one really cares under the glossy surface. the near rasism against westerners. The staring, the way people ignore you when you try to order food in a restaurant and instead talks to my (HK born) wife in Chinese as if I was unable to speak. Come on, I KNOW they speak english, we all do, even non-UK/US foreigners! The way I can start a conversation topic at a dinner table, and people directly start a 20 min discussion in Chinese including talking about you, point at you, laughing at you. And expect me to share the fun? The fact you never get real information, only various degrees of lies or selected filtered information. It gets worse in China, where I spend a few days a week working. Don't get me started on spitting, throat-clearing, food hygiene and toilets or traffic.

Ok, I have read the other threads and I agree totally, it is about different cultures. I can't change a billion Chinese, I must change myself. Learning the language is a start.

But at the moment, I feel like punching peoples face in as soon as I walk outside my house. Cant be right, can it. How many of you have similar problems, how many expats seek counselling help for example? How many actually make an effort learning Cantonese (to better fit into daily HK life).

Who want to share their experience?

I also need a tennis partner...

Cheers

Away and dry your eyes and get on with it. You need counselling for this?....LOL.
It's a big city cultute, the bigger the city the less polite people tend to be, as a general rule. I find the local dudes and chicks fine. And if I ever find they are not then well....who cares? Counselling???

[mango123]

I want to Complain too!!!! Today is my first day at work in a company in HK whose top managements are mostly foreigners. Thus I expect everyone to speak English when they are around people whom they know he/she is a foreigner and NEW. It is just plain manners right?! Not to these Hongkies… they kept on yapping in cantonese and ignoring the others.. Today happened at a lunch table with 12 people. 3 of us were foreigners. Tell me where are the etiquette of these people? So ridiculously RUDE

[gaston]

Wow, havent had that many messages since I won the lottery...

Sorry if I come across as whinging sod, just having a bad few weeks. I got orders from the wife to meet more westerners, so that can only mean one thing MAT, lets go for a beer as you rightly suggest!!


Thanks Katharine,
Will study your post in more detail. Agree with what youre saying, but looking down all the time like you and me, is not good either is it. Cant be good for self confidence?
My wife, bless her, tries of course to translate but I cant expect her to do that all the time, you have to understand her too. When he sees her family of course its easy to get carried away in discussions.

What book did you read?
Pimsleur Cantonese CDs.. I was always told Mandarin is the way forward.

LAW,
I am Swedish, but don't let that put you off tennis... where do you play?

Jimbo,
You are right. I lived in Britain for five years and was APPALLED of how rasism affects Asian and Black people. I was alright of course, looking like any white westerner.

BOGs,
where are you from, NY?? Some of us was brought up in small decent towns, where things like quiteness and politeness is valued. And its easy to talk, wait til you get a depression, bet it will be a different story then. But I get your point.

Cheers all,
gaston

[Valencia1]

Have any of you seen the "Learn English Campaign" commercial on TV or roadshow? It's about a foreigner entering a company with a majority of Chinese colleagues who don't speak English and want to drive the foreinger away. In the end, they've learnt the lesson - "Learn to speak English", and they live happily ever after. It's the inability to speak English that keeps them away, inferiority complex, just like the common knowledge that most Japanese can't speak English. Don't expect HK is an international city and everybody speaks English. 90% of the people I run into everyday are China mainlanders and they don't speak a word of English, esp those working in restaurants and shops, the service sector. If you can speak a little bit of Cantonese, I'm sure they be friendly and nice to you. If people are staring at you, I'd think they are curious because you are in an area with mainly local people, not because they're rude.

[Katharine]

Hi Gaston,

About the Mandarin vs. Cantonese....

When I started my job my bosses wanted me to learn Mandarin so that when I traveled to China I would be able to communicate. I had already begun my Mandarin studies before I came here but once I was here for a few months I realized that the only way I was ever going to become part of this world would be to understand what everyone around me was saying! So I put the Mandarin aside and am working on the Cantonese. I find that I can understand the gist of conversations now and if I continue using the CDs maybe someday I'll be able to join in. At the very least, I will be able to understand the people at my office and then I could always comment in English. Cantonese vs. Mandarin - a tough call. I don't travel to China much, so that was part of my decision.

I can't remember the book that I read about assimilating into foreign cultures - sorry. I read it before I came here.

I was surprised at the post that told you to more or less "get on with it" or "get over it" and dismissed counseling. I disagree with that. When someone is depressed or near-depressed, it's not a matter of just "getting over it." It's nearly impossible sometimes without some help. I hope you have found some comfort here on the forum. I wish you luck.

Katharine

[Mat]

Always open for a beer :-)

[KnowItAll]

>> I got orders from the wife to meet more westerners,

Yeah. That would work... unless you end up depressing them.

Good to see atleast one cheerful response.

[KnowItAll]

>> So ridiculously RUDE

I remember when we'd go to the US HQ for meetings with Japanese and Korean customers.... (One cookie for someone who guesses where this is going..)

Learn to adapt and force the conversation into English.. atleast try to get someone in the group to talk to you.

[LAW]

Originally Posted by gaston

LAW,
I am Swedish, but don't let that put you off tennis... where do you play?

Cheers all,
gaston

Put me off??? The finest serve-volley player to ever grace the planet was a Swede. Stefan Edberg.

When I am in town I play at either Victoria park or the HK tennis centre on Wong Nai Chung Gap Raod in midlevels.

If you are up for a hit, give me a shout.

[gaston]

Originally Posted by Katharine

Hi Gaston,

but once I was here for a few months I realized that the only way I was ever going to become part of this world would be to understand what everyone around me was saying! So I put the Mandarin aside and am working on the Cantonese.
Katharine

Thanks for that, at last some some sensible advice on the language issue!! I travel to China about two days a week, but I found that my HK colleagues speak Cantonese even in China with Chinese staff. Or some odd mix of both. So what chances is there for a poor foreigner? No keep it simple, I am going for Cantonese now, at least I can improve my daily life.