[HKFella]

bert mentioned on another thread that the national dish of Britain is curry and that curry was a British Invention. Native English Teachers Wanted. Agree 100 pct with the second part.

Here's strong stuff from the feisty sardarji gourmet author and meticulous researcher, J Inder Singh Kalra, author of one of my prized Indian cookbooks reserved for special occasions, "Prashad - Cooking with Indian Masters", (1991 reprint, first printed 1986). The chapter is on South Indian cooking:

"Incidentally, 'curry' is an oversimplified form of the Tamil word, kari, which means sauce. The word 'curry' does not even exist in any Indian culinary dictionary. However, thanks to the Raj legacy - and much to the disgust of all Indians - the word became synonymous with our cuisine. The insipid, colourless and tasteless stew a handful of khansamah prepared to pander to the Sahibs' taste became India's culinary shame. The confusion was worse confounded when the Sahibs themselves started cooking the stuff using, what else?, 'curry powder', which again is non-existent in the list of Indian condiments. Fortunately, the world is learning to distinguish between the different styles of Indian cooking and between different gravies - not 'curries'. "

Sharp language, but I'm reminded of my experience with what passes for standard British curry. On my first visit to London in 1981, an English buddy suggested an Indian curry for lunch, below ground level near his office in Soho. Inside, one look at my face and he quickly offered "If you are truly appalled by this, we could always do Italian". We stayed 10 minutes just to satisfy my curiosity by sampling some of the popular offerings (it was one of the most popular curry joints around, full of English folks)...the taste and texture confirmed my worst fears and we ran out to the Italian place nearby. Turned out the curry house (including take-out) business model in UK had been set upon by Bangladeshi immigrants who were able to style it as 'Indian' to locals and somehow it caught on. OK, like the Potels of the US, credit is due for their business acumen (notwithstanding how desultory the result though), but even on subsequent trips I never found them worth spending even a sou on (and no, the degree of chilli-hot has the least to do with it). This is not to take away from the fine dining Indian restaurants which have increased in numbers in London - those are a class apart but generally not the kind where the Brit goes out for national cuisine. Incidentally, that UK buddy was my guest for two weeks in 1987 in Bombay during which we went around to a variety of mostly inexepensive places for locally available fare (none of them 'fine dining' - Busybee would have been proud). Before leaving he said he could now fully appreciate the reasons for that look on my face - which was still etched in his mind.

[wanderer]

.... and the moral of the story is...... !!!!!

[HKFella]

.....so you want it spelt out: ignorance is bliss!!

[wanderer]

.....depends if the ignorance is a 'JHOL' from brick lane..... 'BALTI' from bradford....... or 'SAAGWAALA' from heston......

bliss is bliss..... ignorance comes and goes....

[Max]

While all you guys are debating over curry, have you considered another historical mistake made by the europeans?

How about the fact that Columbus mistakenly refers to the native American populations as "Indian" in the foolish belief that he actually reached India?

And the fact that subsequent generations of Europeans (and Americans) continue this historical misinterpretation and still make the same mistake??

Typical, isnt it?

[HKFella]

The interesting thing arising from Max's comment that etymologically/genealogically, the English word, India(n), can be traced to associations with Hind, Hindu, Hindi, Hindustan, Sindh and the mother of all, the Indus (or Sindhu) river (which ironically is now largely in Pakistan). Far cry then from the "Indians" of Central and Latin America, N. America, or the East Indies, and even more so the West Indies, all a result of a directionally-challenged Columbus landing somewhere and not knowing what the hell to make of it.

Speaking of N. America, in Canada there is an Indian Act, and a Minister for Indian Affairs, but real Indians are often referred to as East Indians (which, interestingly, in India refers to a Christian community out West), thus placing their community name on par with that of West Indians (Caribbean), and below 'Indians', the true natives of N. America. I remember once, Ovide Mercredi, Canada-based spokesman and Grand Chief of Assembly of First Nations, complaining bitterly about being called Indian - words to the effect that Indian is a term for natives of India and we have absolutely nothing against them (in fact, he'd been a life-long admirer of Gandhiji), but blanketing us with this name 'Indian', the white man who forced treaties on us in our own lands has sought to obliterate our heritage and the richness and diversity of the many nations that we belonged to - the Cree, Sioux, Mohawks, etc. etc. and what have you. That was said perhaps in 1992, 500th anniv of the Columbus accident (not celebrated by members of aforementioned nation).

Just a lunchtime tidbit.

[Max]

The fact of the matter is that we're still living a 500-yr old mistake. Isn't it about time something was done to rectify the error? Current efforts being made to distinguish and remedy the situation only go so far. Ask any person about Indians (at least the ones stretching eastwards from Europe), and they'll unequivocally refer to them as being from India. But ask the same to North and South Americans, and you'll get a different answer.

On another note, the problems that Ovide Mercredi mentions, strike a similar chord with the ones once faced by the actual Indians.............."the white man who forced treaties on us in our own lands has sought to obliterate our heritage and the richness and diversity of the many nations that we belonged to - the Cree, Sioux, Mohawks, etc. etc" .............how coincidental, we share the same name, and once shared a similar problem.

[kombuchakid]

so as you don't mix up the indians

[Max]

See what I mean?! I rest my case.

[kombuchakid]

due to all the recent interest in curry, someone pointed out that we had indeed hashed this out during the SARS season

then I run into this account by an American Indian wannabe and his curry encounters and knew this was the place
+++
Bleeding Happily From the Ears
Curry for Lunch

Dear God.

I made curry today.

I don't know how many of you keep up with my food postings, but a while back I came up with my own recipe for Jamaican-style goat curry, to be eaten wrapped in rotis. That's what I made today.

It's hideous. I used a big-ass London broil for the meat, and I guess I ended up with a gallon of curry. I used four tiny habaneros to heat it up, and I feel like it's melting the inner surfaces of my body.

Those habaneros are something. Absolutely my favorite pepper. It's just too bad they don't have a variety that's less hot, so you could get more of the fruity flavor along with the heat. A while back I bought some Scotch bonnets that turned out to be very mild (they're supposed to be about like habaneros), but they were also low in flavor.

I thought I was going to have to put on a respirator when I cooked this stuff. I had the ceiling fan and the stove hood going, and I was still crying like Ted Kennedy after last call.

I'm concerned that people will be disappointed when they make this curry, because there isn't much to it except meat, potatoes, and sauce. It comes across as kind of plain. That's because I stuck to the traditional idea. If this were a dish to eat over rice, you'd want to put bell peppers and water chestnuts and stuff in it, but since it's made to go inside a giant pancake, that crap isn't really appropriate.

If you're a free-thinking nut who refuses to make the pancakes, go ahead and add other things to the curry. As long as you're abandoning the original concept, go ahead and add some tomato paste. Maybe bits of pineapple would work. But if you're eating it with rotis, don't worry, it'll be fine the way it is.

When I'm seriously trying to kill myself with this stuff, I add sour cream before wrapping the roti up. How sick is that? I also put sour cream in the recipe itself. It allows you to get away with more heat.

I don't know if it's worth it to try to find goat. Beef is really good. So is chicken.

Why do I do this to myself? I still have a pint of this weekend's scorching-hot White Anglo Saxon Protestant Chili. The septic tank must be boiling by now.

I ate it without rotis today, since I'm trying not to get any fatter.