[DAQUIRI]

I have posted this on the end of my thread 'Good Interview Questions' but would like to start a new thread.

I been offered a job! Ok, this is good but the pay and holiday isn't I don't think...what do you think? I am a senior designer, here on a dependant visa, with 7 years experience.

22,000 HKD/month which he admitted was poor "but it's what he can get a chinese designer for". This is on the 12 month system. I asked for 30,000HKD and other companies that I've seen have said I could get 35-40, some have said "designers get paid badly - so expect about 24". This is also poor pay not only compared to the UK but also considering the following:

Hours 9-7pm, later if required but usually cut off around 11pm, NO OVERTIME paid.

Holiday - 11 days/year plus bank holiday.

What sort of salary is this similar to in the UK?

Can someone remind me how much I will be taxed please?

I have a few days to decide what to do.

[PDLM]

[Aside: your dependent visa does allow you to work, or do they need to sponsor you?]

11 days is very much "local company" holidays, albeit that HK has more public holidays than most.

Is it a 5, 5.5 or 6 day week?

There's no way I would work past 7pm on a more than very occasional basis, but I guess that's your choice.

From one or two other designers I know I fear that what he says about the local market rate is true, so unless he needs your English ability then you don't have that much leverage.

[shoho]

I agree with PDLM, are you sure that he is employing you just because you are better than the other chinese candidates in talent or will he also be able to benefit further in some way?

Do you have more understanding of a paticular market that appeals to him, for example UK market, than local candidates may?

Do you get your design briefs internally, or will you have to be a point of contact with an international client?

Remember you dont just have 7 years experience, but 7 years in a particular market area, is this complimentary to the job in any way?

You might be more qualified in those areas than your competition were, in which case these can be good negotiating tools to increase your salary.

Think about what you point of difference is from the others and sell yourself. Remember he must like you enough to sponsor your work visa right?

[DAQUIRI]

Thanks for your insightful comments.

My dependant visa does not allow me to work. They will sponsor me but would get me working straight away :O

5 days/week.

This is an international co. so I was expecting more holiday?

I don't think he 'needs' my English ability - well, he didn't admit that he does. He is also employing 2 chinese designers, needs 3 and just said he has just enough work to sustain a non-chinese designer also. Plus he felt it would be a 'good thing' to have a western designer in the mix.

I have a broad portfolio covering all the areas that they specialise in plus more.

He didn't mention that I have more of an understanding of a particular market but this might be the case.

There are project managers to deal with the briefs from clients - I don't think I will be involved.

I suppose I need to sell him my benefits again and ask for more of everything?!

[PDLM]

If he has to sponsor you for an Employment Visa then he has to make a case to Immigration for why he is employing you rather than one of the locals who he says he could get for the same price. Hence, you must have something that he wants that they don't. That is the core of your case.

The problem is that if you call his bluff he might just go ahead and get the local.

You won't get holiday that's way out of line with everyone else in the company if you are on a local contract, but less than 15 days is, I think, quite unusual for European/Australian companies at least.

[DAQUIRI]

Good point!
I think I will ask for 25,000HKD which I think works out about 1,515GBP/month after tax (at 16% I think) - like being on 25K in the UK. Not much more than offered and a very average salary for my experience in the UK but I think 22,000HKD is too little.
I'm going to ask for 3 weeks hol. See what he says. He's already given me the visa forms so he must want me? I can only ask...

[VegemiteKid]

Go for more holidays - I get four weeks a year which I don't think is unusual here. Also remember that HK has more public holidays than most countries - more than 1 a month.

[DAQUIRI]

4 weeks ok! Maybe I should try. My husband works very unsocial hours and travels alot so it's important that I can get time off for us to catch up otherwise we'll never see each other!

[shoho]

personally money is more negotiable than holiday, as it is an unseen figure in the office, I doubt you will get more holiday than the other two designers working in the office.

Anyway good luck!

[PDLM]

The official stats here:
http://www.info.gov.hk/censtatd/eng/...ur7_index.html
are that the median working week is pretty consistently 48 hours across most industries.
Less than 35 hours is considered "underemployment".

I can't immediately find details of whether that includes or excludes lunchtimes (which do tend to be longer here than in the west) or stats on holiday allowances.

The statutory minimum annual leave allowances are here:
http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57i_whole.htm

Be careful that the term "Statutory Holidays" is a somewhat shorter list than "General Holidays". It is the latter that you need (and most(but not all) companies grant. ("Public Holidays" has no formal meaning that I am aware of)