[Miss P]

having showed dogs and had pet ones I have read this forum with interest .
I can't agree with the HK practice of using those silly harness thingies etc on pet dogs for walks .They are useless .They do not teach your dog to move with you.He can resist as much as he likes; he is in charge.
Choker chains - of correct length and thickness -are not cruel -they are a fast effective way for a dog to learn to walk along in a reasonable fashion without straining ,lunging , zigzagging or misbehaving so that no-one has a good time .My dogs have not felt their chain in years because they have now been educated to respect it -usually on one short outing.As a result they behave , can be patted ,and can go anywhere -and also incidentally did well in dogshows.

[dropdedfwed]

choker chains are good as a training aid, not as a restraint.

used incorrectly by the average person, choker chains are dangerous, and potentially lethal.

whilst the harnesses may not be good training aids, they are must safer, especially for non-disciplined dogs.

small dogs also seem to slip out of chokers when they change direction quickly without taking up the slack...

a lot of people walk their dogs briefly and just to toilet, and are not interested in training their dog.

I'd much prefer to see a halter on the average dog than a choker on one, FWIW.

[lulumay]

what "silly harness thingies" are you referring to?

[wtbhotia]

i use choke chains on my two male huskies, doesn't stop them from straining, lunging, zigzagging, usually they take me for a walk, I weigh 85 Kgs but that doesnt stop them. LOL

[Miss P]

re various -huskies -you mean Siberians or?
malamutes /Mals are big heavy dogs indeed LOL but my contention is that properly trained young with a choker they can all be restrained because in essence they restrain themselves. NB the choker must be correct weight and thickess as well as length so not a HK petshop decision...
Re little dogs slipping out of chokers - quite simple the chains are not the correct fit then- hard to get good fit on tiny dogs with no neck..
chokers are not dangerous sorry that is a fallacy -unless the choker is on back to front and locks-then I agree a serious issue
not suggested first time on for old asthmatic dogs of course -I'm talking starting young and training for lifetime use here -not bunging on a choker to a bouncy 12 month old retriever or whatever much more tricky then...
a harness allows a dog esp a big one to simply lean into it with their shoulders and use their bodyweight to pull the lead out of the owners hand-or at least make it a miserable experience for all concerned.And don't start me on those retracting -feedout leads!!!

[Miss P]

i have seen more people drop the lead of a harness than a choker -but yes it is a case of 'train the trainer 'with pet owners and I agree a lot can't be bothered to get it right-pity when its so simple with a bit of practice...

[Eddy Mundo]

Originally Posted by lulumay

what "silly harness thingies" are you referring to?

Something like this:




They were originally made for working dogs to pull things. Not for taking them out on walks. But people thinks it look cool on their dog. I think it's ok on a small dog who can't pull you off balance when it sees a stray cat or something. On a big dog, you need a choker sometimes. Our Rott pulled my mom off balance when it saw another stray dog, and she fractured her wrists when trying to break her fall.

[Miss P]

nailed it...my point exactly

[Tanae]

Miss P, as an (almost qualified) canine behaviourist I completely disagree with you. Choker chains are dangerous regardless of whether you have shown dogs, walked dogs etc. When dogs pull on a choker chain they CHOKE!!! Why do you think the thing is called a choker chain? It would have been interesting to see how you "taught" your dogs a "fast and effective" way of not pulling. Choke chains restrict the dog's airway and the blood circulation is interupted not to mention the potential damage to the neck and internal structures of the throat. Put one around your neck and pull and see how it feels. The more you pull, the tighter it gets. It just so happens I suggested to a lady who has a dog who pulls like mad on her choke chain to change to a harness and the dog's behaviour was remarkable. She stopped pulling immediately for one and could breathe!!

BTW what qualifications are you basing your theory on? Those "silly harness thingees" (as you refer) are far more pleasant for dogs and the dogs have a better point of balance than using a collar. If a dog is trained properly using rewards and POSITIVE reinforcement then they will walk along nicely without pulling and won't resist and 'be in charge' (as you put it.) Dogs that are NOT trained properly will pull regardless of what you've got around it's neck or chest. Do you know why dogs pull when out for a walk? I suggest you find out. Using a CHOKE chain is cruel and you'd be hard pressed to find any behaviourist or trainer who agrees with your inane theory that choker chains are better for dogs than harnesses.

[dropdedfwed]

Tanae,

I agree with you. I have seen a lot of dogs with trauma due to chokers used incorrectly. I stand by choker as a training aid, but not as a restraint. I often advise people to use a harness to restrain, a choker to train...

DDF