[Hamton]

Originally Posted by Hamton

(my computer got a worm, once, back in 2003, after a fresh re-install of Vista when I accidentally left it connected directly to the internet without a firewall because I'd just moved into a new apartment that day -- it got infected in about 2 minutes just by being turned on).

Oh sorry, that's what FilipH was talking about. A typo of Vista in place of Windows.

Well yes, I wasn't using Vista till 2006, and Vista has the firewall enabled by default so that problem wouldn't have occurred, unlike the original XP.

[gazmario]

Originally Posted by jgl

Yeah, I probably overreacted there. My apologies if I misunderstood you.

The OP actually had something interesting to say about a product (problems which I didn't really experience with the 2G version, BTW). It's just that whenever these things turns into a pro/con Apple debate (innovation, MS copycatting, 1 vs 2 mouse buttons, cost of hardware) then any new info or discussion tends to get lost in rehashed crud.

Hey, no harm done at all. I think we mostly agree that these arguments are futile and just a little silly, really.

I personally couldn't care less whether someone else likes the phone, computer and OS I prefer to buy and use. And likewise, there are far too many more interesting things going on for me to spend even one minute thinking or caring about the product choices/purchases other people make. It's their money, their preference. Luckily they don't control my thoughts or my wallet. Hooray for choice.

And while I agree that the OP was making some good points about his experience with the phone (all duly noted for independent verification), there were a few choice phrases in there that don't really belong in objective reviews:

"submissive slaves of Apple products"

"the first Apple product I have ever owned....the most overrated piece of crap I have ever had the misfortune to hold in my hands".

Them sir, are fightin' words

[FilipH]

Originally Posted by Hamton

Where in my post did I even once mention using Vista in 2003? It wasn't released until 2007 (though the RTM was around in 2006). What baring does this have on the discussion?

I think you mean OS X Tiger...

Well, we both have a typo there.

Originally Posted by Hamton

Erm, I don't think it goes against any laws to tell people exactly of my personal experience as you did too.

Sure, but you didn't have to get personal about it. I was just giving some info about nice features in OS/X. Might be useful for people considering to switch to it. At the end of that post, i also mention some negative issues about it.

Then you suddenly feel the need to call it a "Apple/PC rant". There was no need to call it a rant, or to say " for someone who has been using PCs "back since the 286s" you seem not to have used many today".

No need to get personal at that time, especially since it was not a post against Windows, it is a post about the positive sides of OS/X.

Originally Posted by Hamton

And OS X had many of these features you're touting way before Tiger. OS X has been around since 2001 with mostly annual updates. And exactly as I said, Spotlight was in OS X before it was in Windows - but so what, it's in Windows now, and today is what matters unless you're so blinded to ignore that.

I mention Tiger since Windows Vista was clearly inspired by it. Generally in discussions about the Os/X and Vista, people use Tiger as it's at a similar level with Vista in function (but not in execution), so it should be compared to that one.

Originally Posted by Hamton

In my experience, common sense is as valuable as anti-virus software. I do use AV software still, just that I don't run it 24/7 in the background, as such software likes to kill system performance and do effectively nothing. I run it every few months or so just to confirm that my system's clean, as has always been the case.

For the most part, you have to be asking for it to get a virus - downloading a suspicious file or attachment. It's quite difficult to get a virus any other way if you take the right precautions. Just that there are a lot of idiots in the world.

That being said, Windows does require a Anti Virus program. Suggesting it is not necessary, is just a cheap argument trying to prove a point.

[FilipH]

Anyway, we can discuss until there is no tomorrow. Am going to leave it at that. We clearly disagree. It happens.

[Hamton]

Originally Posted by FilipH

I mention Tiger since Windows Vista was clearly inspired by it.

Tiger was an incremental update of OS X. I mean, seriously, if you're saying Vista ripped off Tiger... why not Jaguar or Panther?

Which could get me into another argument - why Apple see the need to release a new OS update every 18 months or so and charge £100 for it... if you look at Windows XP vs OS X over the entire lifetime of the product, with XP you pay for the OS once, about £100 which could last you about 6 years... with OS X you're buying the OS about 4 times over that period should you choose to upgrade and not be left behind - making OS X about 4 times as expensive, aside from the fact you're already paying a hardware premium just to run it (though XP is being surpassed by Vista now and it's hard to say how much longer OS X will keep with the incremental updates).

Frankly the only real reason I'd use OS X over something free and nice like Ubuntu is because Adobe's Creative Suite doesn't run natively on Linux...

Originally Posted by FilipH

That being said, Windows does require a Anti Virus program. Suggesting it is not necessary, is just a cheap argument trying to prove a point.

It does not require an anti-virus program any more than Linux or OS X. Just that most viruses are aimed at Windows. But most viruses are very, very easy to avoid, on a properly updated, firewalled computer.

Sticking an unpatched, unfirewalled Windows PC on the internet is asking for it to be broken in 10 minutes... but other than that, if you stay away from dodgy file downloads and don't be an idiot, it's quite easy never to get a single virus on years or even decades of use.

So no, AV isn't essential. It's just advisable, but even then not strictly required as a 24/7 background task as many people seem obliged to run it.

[MrMoo]

Originally Posted by Hamton

Frankly the only real reason I'd use OS X over something free and nice like Ubuntu is because Adobe's Creative Suite doesn't run natively on Linux...

Which is pretty much unneeded as Google sponsor and help get CS2 working great on Ubuntu. There's not an even remotely significantly amount of people who need CS3 or CS4 (beta).

[Hamton]

Originally Posted by MrMoo

Which is pretty much unneeded as Google sponsor and help get CS2 working great on Ubuntu. There's not an even remotely significantly amount of people who need CS3 or CS4 (beta).

Except for the graphic design industry which runs almost exclusively on Macs and generally has to be near the latest version of Adobe's products (though most are still using CS2 at the moment). Which used to account for the majority of corporate Mac ownership, and probably still does.

[hk.com]

Thanks for all of you guys turned up to the White Stag. The heated conversations after were quite fun.

Maybe do again next Wednesday?

[jgl]

Technology arguments are worthless without drunken arm-wrestling. That's the only rational way of setting OS and hardware disputes.

Was there any arm wrestling at the White Stage?

[FilipH]

Originally Posted by Hamton

For the most part, you have to be asking for it to get a virus - downloading a suspicious file or attachment. It's quite difficult to get a virus any other way if you take the right precautions. Just that there are a lot of idiots in the world.

Virus Infects Space Station Laptops (Again) | Threat Level from Wired.com

If only they had Vista