[er2]

From an anonymous negative feedback

No it is not - look up the definition

presumably referring to my statement here:

I'd say "reliably identify a person who will not spend money in your establishment" based on his race is a fairly good definition of racism.

quoting oxford american dictionaries (the dictionary included with OS X) on racism:

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race

now, if I define the tendency to spend money at a bar as a characteristic.... does anyone find these statements similar?

Apart from that, on the lovely comparison of minimum age vs. race policies - a minimum age policy discriminates everyone equally. While I'm sure I won't become ethnic chinese on my 32nd birthday. Also, there is a sign on the door saying "only above 25". If they do this with "no Indians here", well, go ahead I'm sure a lot of customers will make a point by not showing up anymore

[PDLM]

Well OK, but then a hairdresser specialising in "Afro-American" hair would be racist.

In my mind, the fundamental problem with racist actions is not that racism (as defined above by er2) is inherently wrong (see the hairdressing example) but that there are very, very few circumstances in which discriminating by race can be justified on rational grounds. (All of the ones I can think of are to do with hairdressing, cosmetics, and some health issues) and most racist actions fall outside this criterion.

[goodbye kitty]

Surely being physically different in some way is part of the defination of race (bone structure, skin colour, hair texture etc), so I see no problem in having services that are specific to physical properties of our bodies. I think the quote above uses 'characteristics' to refer to emotional/social/psychological phenomena rather than 'physical characteristsics'.

Racism, by its simplest definition, is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Wiki

There's no judgement in a product that says: for Afro hair (much the same as I use 'for coloured hair or dry hair'). There's a massive difference between this and: People of this hair type don't spend enough on booze (a generalisation AND a judgement).

[PDLM]

Absolutely, that was my point in the previous post. Differentiation by race where the race really does make a difference is not inherently wrong in my opinion, and the Wiki definition of racism is, I feel, more useful than the one quoted by er2.

[DanielandHayley]

back to the entry issue...I recall being on holiday about 5 or 6 years ago in Corfu and speaking to the doorman at one bar/club who told me that the entry price was X amount, but that they charged Italians 10x this amount as they always caused trouble...racist? maybe so, but there was obviously enough previous expereince for them to resort to this...

[PDLM]

"Italian" isn't a race, so it couldn't be racist.

[goodbye kitty]

It's not even xenophobic either. Just old fashioned predjudice. Is it any more so than when they charge guys but not girls for entry (like in Homebase)? But would they even charge a nice Italian couple or just the loutish looking ones?

[Krad]

Originally Posted by goodbye kitty

It's not even xenophobic either. Just old fashioned predjudice. Is it any more so than when they charge guys but not girls for entry (like in Homebase)? But would they even charge a nice Italian couple or just the loutish looking ones?

Ummm...Homebase would probably be a bad example...

[muse07]

hehe, from experience some of the girls at Homebase are not quite bona fide girls genetically.. wonder how they get charged.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by muse07

hehe, from experience some of the girls at Homebase are not quite bona fide girls genetically.. wonder how they get charged.

Half Price? or two for the price of one?