[jps3244]

Hey guys, pleasure to meet you. I've a situation and would tremendously appreciate any help or advice you can offer.

I was living in Beijing, finishing up a year long intensive Mandarin program, from Jan-July. I briefly went back to the US, and moved from New York to HK a couple days ago, without a work visa or a job, to start a business.

With mainland China developing so quickly, I want to get involved in property development over there. But of course that all takes tons of money, experience, whatever, which I don't have... *YET*. For now I want to get involved with owning property and renting it out, seems like the quickest way out of the hole, but I don't know how or any of the laws involved and would appreciate some of your guys' advice. It seems like some of you really know your shit.

I just moved into a crappy little place with another guy. We each have our own bedroom with a twin bed, but if you knocked down the wall in between it would basically be the size of one *normal* bedroom. Apparently the location is very prime, and the HK$ 5500/month incl. utilities I pay for my tiny room is a steal. However, I heard that our landlord used to actually live here, now what he does is pays the actual owner 6000/month and then makes a profit of a little less than 5000 (5500 x 2 - 6000 - utilities) a month. I think this isn't the only place he has, either. Not bad for basically doing nothing, and I'm sure his story isn't the only one like it. As far as I understand, dude doesn't own it, or isn't trying to. But the way I figure, if someone can make that much off something so small, there's gotta be a way to mimic it and make it profitable, and a way to incorporate *ownership* into the mix.

I've some *small* starting capital, a couple thousand US $ only. I guess for the short term I would be looking to get into the ownership spectrum as soon as humanly possible.

So, here's what I'm wondering:

1. Does doing what this guy did seem viable for someone looking to ultimately *own* the properties, rather than simply re-renting them out at a higher price? I assume if he wants to own it he would have to put a down payment and then pay monthly installments? So in this situation, he might have to put a down payment and then every month he gets rent money of 11,000, while paying (a mortage of?) X dollars a month. So in the end, say after a few years, he would own it, and the rent money is profit. Is this basically how it works? Is there always a relatively large down payment for any kind of ownership like the one I described, and if so, how can it be offset, reduced, or, ambitiously, dropped entirely?

2. Can you own just one apartment in the building? Or is it likely that the owner owns the whole building? If so, what obligations does the owner of the building have to you, or, if sold, does the owner of the building no longer own the apartment in any sense? I'm not sure how this work, are there some apartment buildings that you can own the individual apartments and some you can't, or are the buildings mostly some mix of the two? I know that my apartment building at school back in the US was split up, as in individuals could actually *own* the apartments in the building and rent them out themselves or through a property manager.

3. I've heard that you need a work visa or to be a permanent resident to own a property. Is this true? Are there any grey areas that might help (or hurt) me? What are the ways around it? Are there are property ownership rules or laws for foreigners I should be aware of? When I start owning properties, if it was discovered that I did not have a work visa, could they be taken away, something equally horrifying, or worse?

I look around at the skyline and all these huge buildings, many of them residental. I think who the hell owns all of these, because that's I want to do eventually. I just need a viable place to start.

If any of you are involved in property please message me, I wouldn't be adverse to the idea of talking further and maybe going in on something.

[KnowItAll]

He is sharing a room with you. Nothing prevents him from doing that (unless he has an agreement with the landlord which prevents him from sharing). However, you as an unofficial tenant have no rights... he can kick you out when he wants and if he defaults on the payments to the landlord (while collecting from you), you'll have no rights.

The rest .. way too many questions. You'll probably get better responses if you post simpler questions

[PDLM]

1. No different here from anywhere else. You can buy a property using a mortgage which is a loan secured on that property (i.e. you own the property from day one, but the contract with the mortgage lender gives them the right to seize it if you default on the repayments. Down payments for non-residents are normally 30%+.

2. Yes, although actually in nearly all cases here "owning" a property actually means owning a long leasehold on the property (as with apartments in many other countries). The is normally a "building owners" "club" (for want of a better word) which deals with issues to do with the common areas, employs building management/security and so on. The owners pay a management fee for these services.

3. Anyone can own property in Hong Kong. However, since you seem to be residing here illegally (you have no Visa or HKID) then you could get a criminal record and be deported at any time which might make looking after your property a little tricky. And I'd be surprised if many mortgage lenders would give you much of a deal since you are an illegal alien and also clearly rather clueless about all matters to do with owning property.

[jimbo]

Just a few words of advice really as I own a few properties and rent it out albeit these are commercial rather than residential.

What your current landlord is doing is subletting, which may in fact break the terms of the lease which he has with the real owner of the property so I'd be wary of that as if your landlord defaults on paying the owner rent then you'll be the ones getting a visit from any heavies etc and facing possible eviction etc.

[vmlinuz]

Originally Posted by PDLM

you seem to be residing here illegally (you have no Visa or HKID) then you could get a criminal record and be deported at any time...
you are an illegal alien

To be fair,

moved from New York to HK a couple days ago, without a work visa or a job

implies that the OP is currently here on a visitor visa, and examining his options. That's not illegal, although if he doesn't find some form of residency in (I would assume) 3 months, he'll be doing visa runs, heading towards illegality.

Originally Posted by PDLM

and also clearly rather clueless about all matters to do with owning property.

This, on the other hand, seems entirely accurate.

[PDLM]

It was the word "moved" that I was pointing to. If he's a "visitor" then he must have a primary residence somewhere else. I suspect he doesn't.

[vmlinuz]

Oh, sure - as I said, it seems like what he is planning will be illegal, but it doesn't sound like he's actually broken the law yet. In particular, apart from the fact that planning to break into the property market with "a couple thousand US $ only" is, well, a fantasy, I notice no mention of what he's going to live in on the meantime. The fabulous profits from subletting half an apartment aren't going to cut it - they won't exactly lead to a New York-comparable lifestyle...

Eh, the whole thing is pretty nonsensical, really

[lionrock88]

I admire the ambition of the OP and am even more impressed by the naivety behind the questions. A dose of reality coupled with the same ambition and we'll have the next Li Ka Shing.