[Sunfire]

I'm here on a dependent visa, with a valid passport. However, my government refuses to renew my passport when it expires. So obviously I need another valid travel document in order to renew my dependent visa. I've come across the immigration page describing the document of identity for visa purposes, which states it may be granted to anyone who cannot obtain a travel document from another government.

I've called the immigration asking about the document of identity, and they said they only grant it to vietnamese refugees and chinese who are here on single entry visas. I cannot find any law or immigration directive that states it's restricted to specific nationalities or ethnicities.

I intend to go to the immigration in person, but thought I'd check here to see if anyone has experience with this. Appreciate any help.

[Boris]

One might ask what country are you from and why would they refuse to renew your passport ?

[Sunfire]

Finland. It's a bit of a complicated story and there are details I don't need to go into here, but the gist of it is, they require you to have completed military service in order to get a passport with validity beyond age 28. I have obligations here, including family, job and debt, which I can't just leave behind, which they don't care to even consider.

[KnowItAll]

I could not find anything on the immd site which says it is restricted to certain nationalities. Might be worth following up on...

[KnowItAll]

Boris : http://www.mil.fi/varusmies/expatriate.pdf

[chimo]

This is a good place to start:
The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Immigration Department
Why not take go to a professional and ask them to help you out?

Taken from their website:
Q 1 : Am I eligible for a HKSAR Document of Identity for Visa Purposes?
A 1 : HKSAR Document of Identity for Visa Purposes are issued to the following Hong Kong residents:
* Persons who are on limit of stay in the HKSAR and are unable to obtain a national passport or a travel document of any other country or territory.
* Persons who are on unconditional stay but do not have the right of abode in the HKSAR, and are unable to obtain a national passport or a travel document of any other country or territory.
* Persons not of Chinese nationality who have the right of abode in the HKSAR and hold a permanent identity card of the region, but are unable to obtain a national passport or a travel document of any other country or territory.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by KnowItAll

Boris : http://www.mil.fi/varusmies/expatriate.pdf

Seems there are plenty of provisions for differing or having a " special circumstance " but posters asking for help here often don't like to give the downside of their story.

As ex military myself I don't see the problem - do your time - get the respect of your country. HOWEVER - When you have family and lifestyle I can see its not that easy. so wish the OP luck in finding a solution but I might ask if you have appealed this with the Finnish authorities. The para at end page 4 of KIA link shows reason to believe they are pretty understanding.

[Sunfire]

I went to the immigration today. The person at the booth said it's only for chinese. When I showed the person a copy of the immigration page where no such restriction is specified, the person said it's my government's problem, not theirs. Well, no shit, lady. If you don't have a problem with your government, there's no need for a document of identity, now is there?

Asked for the supervisor, and he just offered me a catch-22. He said I should wait until my visa and passport expires, and then apply for an extension to my visa.

I can't apply for a visa extension without a valid travel document, and I can't apply for a travel document unless I'm both here legally and without a travel document. I can't be here legally if I don't have a visa, and I can't have a visa unless I have a travel document. If I'm here illegally, I can't do anything without getting deported.

In short, screwed.

[Sunfire]

Originally Posted by Boris

Seems there are plenty of provisions for differing or having a " special circumstance " but posters asking for help here often don't like to give the downside of their story.

As ex military myself I don't see the problem - do your time - get the respect of your country. HOWEVER - When you have family and lifestyle I can see its not that easy. so wish the OP luck in finding a solution but I might ask if you have appealed this with the Finnish authorities. The para at end page 4 of KIA link shows reason to believe they are pretty understanding.

I have been in contact with the government, both through the embassy and with the army directly. All they know how to say is "the law is the law". They don't care about my situation or other obligations. No exemption, no mercy. The people serve the law, you see. Not the other way around.

I wouldn't expect you to understand the problem I have with the finnish government.

First of all, I was asking about the document of identity, not asking about how to deal with the finnish government. I already know there's no recourse with the finnish government.

Second, what respect do you think I would get from "my country"? Do you have any idea how little respect a conscript gets in Finland?

Third, I don't care about respect.

Fourth, as you might guess, I don't consider it "my country". I am no nationalist. I have a citizenship by birth, which is necessary in this world we live in, with man-made borders, where documents and nationalities and passports are necessary in order to move around in the world. I have a life far away from Finland which I care to maintain, and I have no interest in the defense of that nation.

No matter how you dress it up, conscription is slavery. It doesn't matter if you do it in the name of maintaining the existence of your nation. If a nation needs to force people into its service in order to maintain its existence, what right does it have to exist?

[Boris]

I am sorry you feel you have to write all this in relation to what I said. Its just that when you read the government document its would appear that they CAN be accommodating in many circumstances.

It is obvious that there is more to it than maybe you care to say. Just look at the diatribe you come out with.

This part was of interest to me and caused me to do a little digging. You said
" I already know there's no recourse with the finnish government.

Second, what respect do you think I would get from "my country"? Do you have any idea how little respect a conscript gets in Finland? "

Well my friend I have very little contact with your country or country persons ( 2 girls in a nightclub in Norway being the sum total ) so I looked up Kimi Raikkonen. Famous guy who no doubt would have been exempt ? Nope - he did his service in 2000 and was still able to attend to all his responsibilities. No doubt I could search for many other examples but I see no point.

Seems there is recourse and respect - even though you believe not.
As Kimi was an NCO ( corporal ) he had to serve 12 months. The most you would serve is 6 months as you could opt to be " non technical ". Also - it would appear - if you are a conscientious objector - you have the option of non military service.


Anyway - don't waste your energy on a nonsensical argument. I hope you find a way to a) stay in HK & b) love your country.