[Sunfire]

Originally Posted by KnowItAll

Lets leave the judgmental posts aside - other than Boris and Hamton, I doubt anyone is in a position to pontificate about serving the country and all that nonsense.

Might be worth talking to a lawyer with some immigration experience to see if they can help. There is nothing that says that the document of identity should be given to specific nationalities or not. All immigration is telling you is - it is usually given in these circumstances.

One thing, most of the legal aid type groups who deal with these issues are geared to deal with poor immigrants / illegals and asylum seekers, to might have a tough time getting pro-bono assistance here.

Appreciate it. Any recommendations for immigration lawyers or organizations that handle this type of thing?

[KnowItAll]

I will ask around.

[Hamton]

Originally Posted by Boris

Its not the PLA its the armed police which is a separate arm of the main police

The PLA has a rather well known history of killing Chinese citizens and controlling its own countrymen.

Last I checked, the army and police were created to serve a country's people, not to act as an oppressive government's method of controlling its own people.

Originally Posted by Boris

As for the rest - Ireland is NOT a neutral country - it just declared itself non combatant in WW2. I have great mates from the Irish Navy FYI so your point about the army is lost and I served alongside them around the world in conflict and salvation situations.

That's pretty much a technicality. Irish Neutrality is state policy; Irish neutrality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The basic idea is that Ireland doesn't get involved in war and doesn't go around shooting people.

Basically it's just the fact that Ireland allowed the US and British to have airbases in its territory that stopped it being fully neutral.

Technically, Ireland is a "non-aligned state which takes conflict participation on a case by case basis." That basically means they give non-combat support to foreign militarys (allowing US planes to refuel) but don't have Irish troops fighting, and Ireland's own government refers to themselves as a neutral country.

Originally Posted by Boris

not making the grade mentally and trying the age old trick of trying to demean the process.

I'm not trying to demean soldiers by pointing out the facts, but most are well aware that the young soldiers Britain and the US sends out to places like Iraq, are often there because they have no other choice.

There are plenty of educated officers with degrees, as education is an entry requirement, but for the mere privates and grunts, they're pretty much there because it was that, jail or McDonalds. I don't mean that in a horrible way, it's just reality.

[Boris]

I'll make this short because its obvious now that you have dug deep into a pile of poo you cannot climb out of and are picking up bogus beliefs.

Point 1 - Armed forces in all cases are directed by governments. The PLA ( who have the love of normal Chinese communities because they work for them in normal times - ask any non urban Chinese ) are the same as the US ( National Guard always turned out for riot control and have a history of opening fire on their countrymen and well as doing valiant disaster relief work ). Eire - The army has a similar history, using artillery to take down the Post Office in the Easter Rising but do sterling work in disaster relief and UN peacekeeping duties.. Etc Etc.

Point 2 - So we rely on wikipedia ? I prefer my own eyes as a record of what they have done in the recent past. As for "Technically, Ireland is a "non-aligned state which takes conflict participation on a case by case basis." " isn't that the case with all countries ? Come at me and I will return the favour ?
Its just a matter of defining how someone is deemed a threat to the country or its interests.

Point 3
" I'm not trying to demean soldiers by pointing out the facts ".
If it was facts you where coming out with I would answer " yes you are ". However you come out with incorrect common perceptions like " they're pretty much there because it was that, jail or McDonalds."

This is total rubbish and IN FACT most AF have a policy of not allowing entrants with a criminal record at a certain level which normally revolves around jail time. Or would you think 3 points for speeding should disenfranchise you or, on the other hand, count you as a criminal.

Due to ALL major nations, NOT incorporating National Service and even those NOT involved in Iraq / Afghanistan, having recruitment problems, it would seem an easy fix to just do a " Dirty Dozen " move and empty the jails. This, of course doesn't happen because modern AF are professionals and proud of it. Even the UK Parachute Regiment who could be an easy target of going " off message " more than once. But when you need a dirty job cleaning up, their " mindless " training has got the job done and can be seen by how many valour awards are shown for the regiment.

I WAS going to take KIAs advice and leave this alone but not when someone who failed tries to diss those that succeeded and are proud of doing so. No matter how fat and grey haired they are now.

[hktraveller]

I suggest that you start a separate thread about armed forces instead of clustering up (I avoid the word hijacking) the thread of an OP who genuinely asks for help.

[freeier]

kia > u wld be surprised by how many ppl having gone thru that uniformed experience.

one can rant all about it, but just like tax, its created out of 'necessity' for that establishment, whether the payees agree or not.

the cleanest way is to get rid of the citizenship and get another one. I don't think another government (in this case, HK SAR) is keen to step in with an offer for someone that is technical a fugitive from his/her own country (maybe is not in finland's case, but most countries would treat one that run away from military services as a criminal) a document to stay, unless this person takes up the residency.

a country has its good and bad system that not everyone agrees to. give up the citizenship if you think you don't agree to it. there are many more countries that don't have the system.