[KnowItAll]

What experience does he REALLY have?

(OK... He's not dodged bullets in Bosnia for sure...)

YouTube - "Hardball" Way Too Hard for Obama...

[aussiegal]

I'm not ageist. Some argue that McCain is too old, I don't agree. Being young is also not a negative but it's one thing to be young and another to be unqualified. Wouldn't you agree you need to have some decent 'industry related experience' to take up the world's top political position? Look what's happened to MBA's (as a pretty simple analogy ). Used to be you had to have 10 plus years of work behind you, now any 23 with a fat wallet can get in. The result, all but a few MBAs from the best schools are taken seriously. Do we want the US president to lack the same credibility in the eyes of the world?

Mat I agree. I look at which books Oprah endorses then make sure I don't read them. (did she endorse The Road? If so I'll make an exception for that book).

Now I can add Presidential candidates supported by O to my list of what to avoid.

[meiguoren]

Originally Posted by aussiegal

meiguoren you can't be serious? We're not talking about leading a company, coaching a tennis team, we're talking about leading the US in a pretty difficult time. Do you really want some pretty boy in who got there because he's got a nice set of abs and most of hollywood, not to mention Saint Oprah is behind him?

Well a man with less experience was able to keep the union together (Civil War) and make a number of landmark executive orders and laws. I'm not attracted to the man personally and have never seen his abs - nor have I expressed support for the man - but I'm more likely to not vote for Obama or McCain because I'm a fiscal conservative and NOT because of any percieved lack of experience. BTW the last two pretty boy presidents we had were pretty damn good presidents, pun intended. Reagan was a hollywood actor and JFK needs no introduction. There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Obama but this notion that you need vast amounts of public sector experience to be a good president is approaching absurd imo - and Abraham Lincoln is proof positive.

Now I can add Presidential candidates supported by O to my list of what to avoid.

Oprah is a non-issue for me, she can support whoever. She is a successful business woman if not one of the most successful businesswomen in the world (not many women I can think of are more successful..) and if she wants to get on her soapbox I can't stop her, nor can I stop Limbaugh or O'reilly or Russert or anyone else. She is a good American and has worked hard for her empire. Avoiding a candidate beause Oprah, someone with immense management skill and revenue-generating potential likes them is imo a silly way to decide who to vote for.

Also don't scoff at the level of stress that a CEO might go through. You lead a sometimes huge organization often times with a hostile board and less job security than a 4 term president, and many CEO's arguably have more influence than many presidents and PM's around the globe.

[meiguoren]

Originally Posted by aussiegal

And if it's going to be an Obama why couldn't it be his wife. She is one smart and charming woman, maybe that's enough if we're to follow meiguoren's argument.

I believe she's one of the reasons Obama has so much support behind him. Hell I'd vote for her over the other muppets running.

Did Obama's wife serve in the US senate, or the Illinois state legislature in any capacity? Or does all that experience not count? It's not like Obama is applying fresh out of HLS and it's not like he would be the first president from Illinois with only a few terms in office as experience. Again if a 2 term member of the house from Illinois can be one of if not america's greatest president why can't a senator from illinois from hls with years of experience in the US senate and illinois legislature be a good president? This argument is silly.

[aussiegal]

CEO's and many people with significant management responsibilities have undoubtedly stressful positions but few will ever be blamed for inciting terrorist actions, killing their own (by starting a war) or causing a recession.

I'm not criticising Oprah as a business woman, she is amazing and there's no need to classify her a the most successful business women out there as she also competes head on with the best men.

This said it is her appeal to the masses that has made her successful. I'd like to think I can form my own opinions without turning to her for help. In any case, it was a joke. Next time I'll put lots of exclamation marks to make sure I'm not taken seriously!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that being able to give one example of someone who has done a good job in the role without much experience (Abe lincoln) is not enough but I'll use it if i ever want to get a job doing something I know little about

[meiguoren]

Originally Posted by aussiegal

I think that being able to give one example of someone who has done a good job in the role without much experience (Abe lincoln) is not enough but I'll use it if i ever want to get a job doing something I know little about

Abe is the best of examples which is why I presented ol tophat. He also completely smashes any argument that lack of public sector experience means that someone will be a bad president. It simply is not true. As far as your assertion that Obama knows little about being president I guarantee you that if you put McCain, GW Bush, GHW Bush, Bill Clinton, Cheney, Hillary Clinton, and Obama and tested them on the job/powers/responsibilities of the president the test results would look like this:

1. GHW/Bill
2. Hillary/Obama/Cheney (these might be in the first tier)
3. GW Bush

btw Hillary doesn't exactly have tons of experience either. And how does someone from Arkansas move to the White House and then right after apply for a senate seat in NY?

oh and I was joking about oprah too

[aussiegal]

Hey, I've never said I supported Bush or Clinton (M) or thought they were good Presidents or even candidates.

But on Clinton (f) I'd hate to see her make it further than she already has. Her political ambition (imho) has nothing to do with wanting to do the right thing by the US.

On a lighter note, what do you reckon it's like to be Bill these days

[meiguoren]

Originally Posted by aussiegal

Hey, I've never said I supported Bush or Clinton (M) or thought they were good Presidents or even candidates.

But on Clinton (f) I'd hate to see her make it further than she already has. Her political ambition (imho) has nothing to do with wanting to do the right thing by the US.

On a lighter note, what do you reckon it's like to be Bill these days

Well I'm sure he wants to get back into the white house badly. He loves the office and would probably still be president today if laws allowed it (and if no scandal occured). Honestly I almost want Hillary to win just to see video of Bill returning and O'Reilly and Sean Hannity going ballistic. I've never liked hillary - though these days she seems far more moderate then before.

[Sleuth]

Originally Posted by meiguoren

Abe is the best of examples which is why I presented ol tophat. He also completely smashes any argument that lack of public sector experience means that someone will be a bad president. It simply is not true. As far as your assertion that Obama knows little about being president I guarantee you that if you put McCain, GW Bush, GHW Bush, Bill Clinton, Cheney, Hillary Clinton, and Obama and tested them on the job/powers/responsibilities of the president the test results would look like this:

1. GHW/Bill
2. Hillary/Obama/Cheney (these might be in the first tier)
3. GW Bush

btw Hillary doesn't exactly have tons of experience either. And how does someone from Arkansas move to the White House and then right after apply for a senate seat in NY?

oh and I was joking about oprah too

In order for Lincoln to answer all those concerns, you would have to feel that running the US 150-160 years ago is comparable to running the US now. I think you are stretching things. And I am not saying that running the US during the Civil War was easy, just different and less complex overall. Perhaps if Lincoln had been PM of Britain you would have a better case. And I would like to point out Lincoln was a lawyer, which is pretty much the bar for entering politics now, so that profession must provide some sort of relevant experience (and money).
However, for every Lincoln you can also come up with a President with loads of public experience who didn't perform as well so experience is nice, but hardly necessary to be a great President.
And Hillary has as much experience being President at Brett Favre's wife does quarterbacking the Packers.

[Sleuth]

Originally Posted by aussiegal

But on Clinton (f) I'd hate to see her make it further than she already has. Her political ambition (imho) has nothing to do with wanting to do the right thing by the US.

I'm with you there.