[Claire ex-ax]

Claire- You know people who can't use chopsticks? Wow, the last time I actually came across someone who couldn't use chopsticks was in... 1998!

No, I've MET people in HK who are PR and can't use chopsticks. They are the type of people who only eat in 'western' restaurants and never travel on public transport. (And probably lived in Mid-Levels when they first arrived in here )

[jgl]

Know vs met - that's a fine but important distinction

That's just freakin' pathetic! Then again, there are lots of counterparts to that in Richmond, BC and Toronto.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax

They are the type of people who only eat in 'western' restaurants and never travel on public transport. (And probably lived in Mid-Levels when they first arrived in here )

Ah yes, travel from mid levels to work in IFC by Taxi, Only shop at city super for groceries etc

[PDLM]

To me it's not about what you can or choose to do, it's about your knowledge of the place, how it works and what people do.

I don't think I'm fresh off the boat, but there are many Chinese dishes which I wouldn't choose to eat (not least because I don't like the effect MSG has on me), and I've lived in the mid-levels ever since I got here.

I'd learned to use chopsticks long before I ever left the UK since that's what you get in the Chinese restaurants there (which serve "Chinese" (i.e. not what is served in China) food more to my taste).

But I do catch the bus to work every day...

[dean-dzai]

Originally Posted by Skyhook

You have to take the good with the bad Claire Bear, its the law of the Geo forum jungle lol.

It sounds like I find humerus the same things as Clare on the topic, but I loose green dots - I guess it's now what's said but who said it. My experience with this term was positive in Melbourne, I found it strange that it was positive. Or maybe it was neutral? I can't quite figure the difference.

Some of us use the term 'gwailo' almost as if it were positive, some (including my wife who is a very local Chinese) see it as very neutral and others are very offended and take your green dots away if you use the word.

I think also there is a point where we need to accept the terms, like PDLM, hey - you said you are a bit "Fresh of the Boat" and power to you. Why are so many offended by people saying the obvious? As local as I try to be I think it would take 10 years of trying to be very local and not FOB. I am less FOB then many of my friends but many of us are pretty FOBby. If we want to stay FOBby this is okay to, if we want to assimilate as much as possible this is quite helpful in the local context, but we're all in the same boat if we're on this forum (unless we're Chinese trying to improve our English or prefer English).

But it is interesting.

[PDLM]

Originally Posted by dean-dzai

It sounds like I find humerus the same things as Clare on the topic, but I loose green dots - I guess it's now what's said but who said it.

Or maybe you just get closer to the bone?

[Lammarite]

Originally Posted by sylvesterjay

FOB would be those American sailors (literally, fresh of the boat) strolling around Wan Chai wearing those stupid hats from Coyote, that only they wear

What's that all about- cinco de mayo is a week away yet! As if wearing their trousers round their knees, visors upside down and backwards, no laces in the Timberlands and more jewellery than Mr T didn't make them look stupid enough already!

Anyway- who says that not being FOB is any better than being FOB?

[dean-dzai]

Originally Posted by Lammarite

Anyway- who says that not being FOB is any better than being FOB?

Interesting question. I don't even know if those us of trying to be less "FOB" know the answer.

Originally Posted by dean-dzai

A split can occur in such communities between those who have assimilated or acclimated in their host countries and those who still cling to their native culture. The usage of "FOBs" is often used by the former .......wikipedia

I think the Wikipedia article made a key observation and regardless of if those involved are right or wrong in their behavior should be acknowledged and kept in the back of the mind at the least.

[PDLM]

I think that's not quite right, at least as I would use the term. "Fresh of the boat" indicates lack of awareness or understanding. Whether you wish to or have assimilated into it is a different matter. For example, if we apply the US standard as defined at Wiki then I don't think you could claim that anyone who isn't reasonably competent in Cantonese would be anything other than FOB here (cf non-English speakers in the US).

[dean-dzai]

Originally Posted by PDLM

For example, if we apply the US standard as defined at Wiki then I don't think you could claim that anyone who isn't reasonably competent in Cantonese would be anything other than FOB here (cf non-English speakers in the US).

I don't know if it was an American who wrote that article, but PDLM you are dead right. There are a few foreigners we 'sometimes' see on TV who reach this level of spoken Cantonese. So yes, even though my affections are towards local things, I am very FOBby indeed. I said elsewhere in this thread that I expect to be pretty FOBby for at least another 10 years. I could be FOBby for the rest of my life if being like local people is the goal of the one adjusting to the target culture. So this observation can be between FOBby people and less FOBby people - not necessarily those who have totally adjusted.

Cantonese Speaking White Australian - PART 1

Check this Australian woman speaking Cantonese, when I am at her level then I am not a FOB.

Originally Posted by Skyhook

Keeping ones cultural identity intact, is something I greatly admire about people, nothing is more sorry than a person who has lost their identity, and who is bitter about their home land, a person of great character will replace the i with an e, and makes things better.

Many who know both myself and Skyhook know we're not the same on this topic - but it is something I admire in many people regardless. Skyhook is very proud, even enough to have as his hometown, "Born under the glow of the Victorian Southern Cross". I am in fact the same but write my hometown as "Hong Kong". Why? I don't know why we differ and I don't think it matters. My mainland friends are flattered that I love something about their Country and they like to hear me talk nice things about China. What makes me love it more then my own? I don't know and I don't think it really matters.

I think this is totally part of the FOB article in Wikipedia. In Australia if someone from Asia said, "I love Australia so much, I now call Australia home", Skyhook, would you be flattered? Or anyone else if you were in your home Country and a migrant said that? It's all neutral, I know there are positive things about my home Country, yet when a center of reality shifts with the new culture, it just shifts. For some they don't experience this - for some they do. I think people don't like it more because they don't like hearing things about the place they most love - I think we all understand, but we all love different places (and try and understand and appreciate them all).

Summary: I think it is all part of the FOB phonomena how we handle other foreigners ways or adjusting here in Hong Kong, especially when their way of adjusting is different from our personal experience.