[Lammarite]

Originally Posted by dean-dzai

This is deep and philosophical, no harm intended in by any means.

Errrmmm, no. Mildly interesting, yes.

[dean-dzai]

Originally Posted by Lammarite

Errrmmm, no. Mildly interesting, yes.

I think it is mildly interesting when we think about other ethnic struggles to adjust to new target cultures. But when 'we, me, us' are the foreigners and I have to say, 'I am the foreigner, and my ways are foreign' and we see how each of us adjusts and adapts to the target culture - this is more interesting because it applies to our life.

Each of us have differing variations of this depending on our need to adjust. How true do you think this is?

[jgl]

Originally Posted by dean-dzai

The Wikipedia article I referred to in the first post a few years ago referred specifically to people from an Asian dependency settling in Western Nations. However if you read the current article it is amazingly neutral and refers to any immigrant settling into any target culture.

So, if the Wikipedia is to be taken 'verbadem' then are us expats "FOB's"? And if the Wikipedia article is neutral and factual (surely all things on the Internet are factual *haha*) then are the less assymilated we are with Chinese language and culture, the more "FOBBie" we are?

The word FOB is also certainly alive and well in Australia and used to talk of immigrants from Asia. I found a tension between my FOB friends in Australia and my banana friends also in Australia - do you think such tension arises in Hong Kong between those of us expats who are more assimilated and those of us who wish to stay in our gwailo hangouts?

This is deep and philosophical, no harm intended in by any means.

I think the Wikipedia article is only neutral because it's likely to have been edited by Americans who think that they are at the centre of the universe Using it to describe Westerners in Asian settings is a bit counter-intuitive. First world Westerns generally will never assimilate, and most are not even in Asia for all that long.

I never came across the term in Oz (despite being Chinese and knowing loads of Vietnamese and Koreans). Or in the UK, or even in (more surprisingly) Canada. It could be an age thing though- perhaps the term took a while to move across from the US.

[Skyhook]

I have to say i entirely agree with JGL on this, its un-Australian to use the FOB term anywhere. Maybe its a gen y trait.

Because, my experience of living in Melbourne was fantastic, i love the richness of its ethnic communities, and i just cant relate to Deans version of events.

Maybe its the people he hung out with, who knows.

I know plenty of Australian born Chinese families that have lived in the country since the Gold Rush era, my family had only lived in Australia since the late 19th century, and the early 19th century in New Zealand.

Cultural tension is entirely a personal perception, if you think you are a victim, then chances are, you will be, and birds of a feather flock together.

As far as hong kong goes, I have probably lived in the NT 90% of the time that we have been here. We chose locations based exclusively on spaciousness, and low density construction orientation. No other parameters were considered. But it is nice to be able to blend what we have experienced living in a number of countries, HK is nothing new to us on an adaption perspective, its no different to living in Dubai, or Paris, or Wellington, or Milan... You adapt and continue your families basic routine.

We are all creatures of habit, and its very easy to adapt that routine no matter where you live.

The tension and perception issue that Dean explains is very much reminiscent of a person who is either experiencing a cultural identity crisis of sorts. Doesn't know where they stand anymore, had their blanky pulled...

Theres quiet a few of us on this forum who have lived in Asia for 8 plus years and longer, extensively travelled abroad to have learnt adaptive living, no matter how extreme or different the environment.

It's a good test of character if you can thrive or just toss in the towel.

And yes, the FOB topic is largely a meaningless term, as i am upfront to anybody that I am first and foremost, Australian, what i have learnt abroad has just nourished my mind that the world is far from flat, and always fascinating. You cannot take ones identity away, the location we chose to live today is of little importance.

People like Dean aren't happy unless there is some kind of fault to be found in society, or victim view point to expose.

You need to open your horizons and see that your cup is indeed half full Deano, there is a big beautiful world out there, if you allow yourself to see it, warts and all.

[dean-dzai]

Originally Posted by Skyhook

People like Dean aren't happy unless there is some kind of fault to be found in society, or victim view point to expose.

You need to open your horizons and see that your cup is indeed half full Deano, there is a big beautiful world out there, if you allow yourself to see it, warts and all.

I was in an Asian community in Melbourne, Box Hill, Springvalle, Blackburne, my ex was Chinese and many of my friends were from Cambodia, Thailand, China, Hong Kong, Vietnam and so on, and they often used the word FOB, FOBBY, said "we are FOBs", and commonly used it to refer to themselves in an almost proud way. I walked around with my Asian friends, and they would point to someone driving and say, "they drive like a FOB". I just stood there thinking it's strange that Asians refer to other Asians as FOB's. No-one else experienced this?

This is not a negative thing Skyhook, just interesting.

jgl - as a Chinese in OZ, what would you think of my friends behavior in Australia? Even my ex would refer to herself as a banana, and then also use the word FOB quite often - and her family also is from Hong Kong. I had friends who's English level was very minimal, and others who were Australian in every way.

Originally Posted by jgl

I think the Wikipedia article is only neutral because it's likely to have been edited by Americans who think that they are at the centre of the universe

This 'could' be the case, but the Wikipedia article used to be very inclusive and contain different usages in different Countries - some saying the term was used derogatory, while others agree with my above experience that it was used to talk about oneself. It listed Countries used and Australia was most there also. I'm a little puzzled actually by this new article with is amazingly neutral. I looked it up because I saw the word used in a way which I thought was referring to foreigners in Shanghai! Do Chinese in Shanghai use this word to talk about foreigners? I don't know. Interesting though.

[penguin]

"FOB" was used in both the eastern and western US as far back as the 1800's when the great migrations to the US began to happen. However, for the most part it just mean newcomer or newbie in our modern terms. But it mostly got it negative terms from the previous immigrants themselves. By that, I mean they could recognize who was new to community and take advantage of them, be it by scams or by making fun of them due to their lack of local knowledge.

That being said, JGL, we are newbies in one way or another continually in our lives. New school, job, country, or habits. It really does not have that much to do with "americans" as it that Americans have used slang phrases our whole life.

[Claire ex-ax]

Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax

I use the term FOB for those newly arrived expats who immediately head to the Mid-Levels for flat hunting (they been told it's 'the place' expats live). I have expanded it to other terms such as FOB estate agents (those who have chosen to work with FOBs with their Mid-Levels flat hunts).

These HK FOBs can be identified by their announcements about what they have found in HK which they assume no one else has ever seen before, e.g. Look at these funny things, they're called mooncakes.

Someone rated this as "So True" and someone rating it as "Offensive".

Thanks for the first one. But who found what offensive? And why didn't they have the gumption to post a response on the thread? This comment comes from over twenty years of observations of FOBs arriving in Hong Kong. How someone would find it offensive is beyond the pale. Mooncake anyone?

[PDLM]

This phrase is used all over the place. I'm sure I remember in my younger years various relatives & friends who had served in the British diplomatic service in colonial times using the term quite a lot to refer to new postings from "home" who hadn't yet had time to get adjusted to the local way of doing things. It wasn't meant in any particularly offensive way then (and it certainly didn't have any racial connotation since these were all white British diplomats). I'm sure I must have used the term that way myself here at some point in the last decade to describe someone who asks questions like "what's an Octopus card" or "do I tip the taxi driver".

I get the impression that the term's usage in the US to refer to recent Asian immigrants is somewhat different.

[Lammarite]

Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax

Someone rated this as "So True" and someone rating it as "Offensive".

Thanks for the first one. But who found what offensive? And why didn't they have the gumption to post a response on the thread? This comment comes from over twenty years of observations of FOBs arriving in Hong Kong. How someone would find it offensive is beyond the pale. Mooncake anyone?

Don't worry- I get loads of faceless idiots writing stuff on mine!
Some good ones too though!

[Skyhook]

You have to take the good with the bad Claire Bear, its the law of the Geo forum jungle lol.

You have done o.k in regard to positive reputation rating, 95 posts in, you're already a "glorious beacon of light"