[heisha]

Either being called for interviews, salary parity or pay rises??

Any stories to tell? or is this an old topic??

Debbie

[shri]

Old topic, but some of the older topics are worth revisiting.

Discrimination against me:

Usually by older chinese and other Indians

Never @ work or professionally.

[heisha]

No responses?? Everything's fine then??

I've just discovered I've been the victim of discrimination - gender.

As to Indians with Indians??? How are Indians as employers? When I first came to HK I was employed by an Indian doctor who harassed me for a year, alternatively bribing, cajolling, threatening, blackmailing, and then finally DENYING any wrongdoing!! I was LITERALLY dodging him all over the office. It was disgusting and gave me IBS.

I think we perpetuate the exploitation.

But back to topic...

It's a well know fact that there's some serious racial discrimination in HK. I'd be interested in a poll as to how we all came by our jobs - whether through job ads/networking/ recruiters and in the interviews, of what ethnicity were the HR dept/decision makers?? And when responding to an ad what % of the time do you get called for an interview?

Are there existing studies? Would anybody be interested in contributing?

Cheers

[goodfood]

Here's a point of view about discrimination against Indians in HK:

I work in a totally Chinese organisation where I'm one of the two non-Chinese people among more than five hundred employees. Have not faced any discrimination but then I've also made efforts to ensure that I'm not seen as an alien: going out to lunch regularly with colleagues at local Cantonese joints, making efforts to learn Cantonese, showing enthu about learning basics of their culture and about their food and their festivals, inviting people home etc ( I've also got invited to people's homes, which I'm told is a rarity among local Chinese)

Too often foreigners, esp Indians, don't make the effort and end up being isolated. The seedy image of Indian owned shops in TST, the Chungking types, the absolute refusal of some people to shed overwhelmingly Indian dress and customs and the Indian columnists of SCMP who only write about dowry deaths and cows in the streets of Delhi, all contribute to the overall image and isolation and partly contribute to the problem of discrimination.

In the HK society at large there is possibly a whole lot of racial discrimination, as seen in reluctance of midlevel landlords to rent/sell to Indians, rude behaviour (sometimes) by shopkeepers, glass ceiling at work ( this is hearsay of course), and in extreme cases, a reluctance to sit close by in buses and MTR. I've heard people say they've experienced these things, but I've personally never faced it as yet. But I guess this is definitely an issue in HK as organisations have cropped up dealing with these matters.

Debbie - for the record I got my job in HK by applying to a newspaper advt and going through the usual interview process. It obviously caused a great deal of commotion in the organisation to hire a non-Chinese at a fairly senior position, but then that's to be expected.

Also for the record I believe money or the lack of it and appearance ( the Chinese refer to this as ' keeping face') are more telling factors in your acceptance into Hk society than race or colour.

[shri]

Argha,

The question really is, would the folks in your office have have been less distressed if the hire was say.... a caucasian american? Would they have been more distressed say if it was a Thai woman?

Shri

[heisha]

I agree with you that to a large extent we are to blame. I've not faced any race discrimination professionally. And I've witnessed Indians (and Americans too) refusing to integrate, refusing to touch the food, making fun of the culture... and some really bad hygiene habits (nose picking, coughing, yawning... I know that this is a predominant thing here too, but when people already have theories about "dirty" indians these serve to reinforce them).

But I've witnessed reluctance to sit next to an India - my husband being a case in point. I've seen some discrimination personally as well.

We lived in Laguna city a long time ago and had a terrible landlord - a barrister and a lawyer (wife and husband criminal team). They decided that if they didnt return our deposit there'd be nothing we could do about it as indians in HK. Well, my sister took them to the small claims tribunal and WON against these half-assed legal brains. She even cross examined them and wound them up in little circles. They actually had no case. The judge was much amused. I was amazed we won, and that restored my faith in the legal system. Still after winning they refused to pay, so she tied up their land and that was when 1997 hit, and they could not sell in time. Wonderful story hehehehe.

Since then, I interview the landlord. I am so grateful for the rental crash.

BTW, I LOVE chinese food (and have tried just about everything, including chickens feet and fish stomach hehehe).

BTW, I think personal appearance matters here a very very great deal.

[shri]

Heisha,

Lets also not forget the stories of African students in India while we're at it.

Lets face it, discrimination is fundamental to humans. We discriminate on dozens of levels about *everything* in life. If we did not discriminate, we'd be far lower on the evolutionary scale.

What matters is what we discriminate about.

If I met a nigerian in a bar who told me he was a businessman, you'd see me take a step away and perhaps try to walk away. Am I being discriminatory?

If I was seated next to a 350 lb woman and had the alternative to sit next to a beauty queen, guess what alternative I'd take. Am I being discriminatory?

If I've just met three martians in my life and they were all green and one eyed -- would I go on a blind date with a martian? Am I being disciminatory?

Ok, I know I'm playing devils advocate here. But face it, EVERYONE has discriminated against someone or the other. Time to confess ....

[heisha]

Indians are pretty discriminatory, we know that, esp. amongst other Indians. I'm used to it - I'm "mixed blood" and grew up being discriminated against. It only made me stronger and more competitive, so that was a good thing hehe, but growing up I was a bit confused. And the malayali nuns hated us

But I'd only discriminate against sitting with someone if they smelt bad. I have a BIG thing about smells.

I guess we all generalise about races, countries etc, but once we meet a person we take them at face value no matter what colour or race, is it not?? I've been at the butt end of bigotry and make a conscious effort not to do it myself.

I didnt know about African discrimination in India till my all girls band went out for dinner one night to Top Cape in B'lore. There was this Aftrican guy who tried to dance with us. We were fine, just enjoying ourselves, but the waiter came up to us and asked if he was bothering us. We said no, nothing we couldnt handle; the next thing we knew they'd grabbed this guy and KICKED him through the door. The waiter actually went some distance away and took a running leap before kicking him in the behind. I was totally disgusted and we left right away, our entire evening ruined.

I think the Chinese who have gone to Australia/UK/US and faced some severe discimination there, are more humane in their treatment of other races when they return to HK.

Shri, I wouldnt agree that discrimination against colour and nationalities is fundamental to us. It depends on the atmosphere in which we grew up, the tolerance and acceptance, and how exposed we were to different nationalities as children. There are many many things that give us our prejudices.

Paul you are right. I've noticed a difference in treatment (restaurants/shops) when I'm with Indian friends as opposed to my "gweilo" (hehe) friends.

Having said that, I also get a difference in treatment when I walk into a shop wearing jeans and sneakers as opposed to leather jacket and boots ugh.

[kombuchakid]

STRANGER-THAN-FICTION LIFE STORY OF ONE BREANAGH MCTAVISH ...


:: my ethnic background

chinese, malay, and probably a dash of indian. and possibly english or portuguese along the line. or even dutch.

given the history of south-east asia, my ethnic race - called "peranakan cina" or straits-born chinese in malay - came about sometime in the 15th century or earlier in malacca, a state of malaysia. it can be said i'm creole or mestiza.

sadly on this wee isle where i was born and raised and still living in, i'm officially seen as part of the "purely" ethnic chinese majority which i don't wish to be grouped together with.


:: how come?

- i'm straits-born.


- i was raised an anglophile hence speaking our very own creole english (as normally the case with a number of british-colonised countries) and peranakan malay throughout my life.

hence mandarin chinese is a completely alien language in my family. or wider community. however given a choice, i'd rather speak hokkien (classified as a dialect on this wee isle which is not) than mandarin 'cos it is my ancestral language.


- what with the lack of use over the years, my literacy in writing and reading rudimentary chinese declines. simply couldn't register all those hieroglyphics.


- i'm alright verbally but with "weird accents" that run from the gamut of malay, western and hongkongish.


- my race is seen as half-breed by the more parochial / inferior class of the purely chinese. which to them is a complete betrayal to the "yellow" race. but hey, now i'm witnessing lots of their daughters/grand-daughters producing half-breeds by western expats!

ha, talk about what goes around comes around.


- talking to any member of that race and others usually leaves me befuddled and vexed due to their completely different "ideologies" and mentality.

maybe it's the way the language is written, like the chinese script is originally written / read from left to write, up to down. what's more it's in hieroglyphics, that perhaps explain their warped view of the world.

honestly, there are no chinese, or even other asian language equivalent of *logic*, *common sense* and *creativity*. honest.


- they, along with other ethnic asian races over here, have this habit of tarring everyone with the same brush. without bothering to make distinctions. or open-minded enough to accept individualism.


- most expats whinghed at various times that people here has no friggin' sense of humour. go figure.

hey, they do enjoy the typical "duh?" hollywood movie. and low-class reality shows. like "american idol". and "temptation island".

woe betide if you point out to the natives themselves are funny. they'll accuse you of /imply your making them "lose face". but they have every god-given right to laugh *at* you.



:: so yes, i'm what some folk would call "banana" and i've got no problems with that if one doesn't misuse it or with the intention of deriding me.

but heck, don't label, categorise, or pigeon-hole me. 'cos i possess, what many people have had rightly pointed out, *a global thinking*. so you won't know where exactly i'm from.

and yes, there are more similar and common values, dreams and fear amongst us regardless who you are or where your from.


:: even my physical features are a tad un-chink/asian.

my barnet's naturally brownish-black, and when i was younger i had a few strands of ginger hair. also i've got semi-deep set eyes which are not the least slitty/slanty :P


:: and no i'm not a miserable git, despite all the above.

why? i've been here for so long that i'm immune to it all. that's why.

without these clowns around providing me such comic relief, i won't even have a chance to enthrall you's with my tales, innit?


DECONSTRUCTION


:: i love 'em moggies. but i have never owned one.

how come? i live with my family, and me mum is a cleanliness obsessive. and living in a flat, the poor moggy will get claustrophobic.

i like the singapura cat breed best. and it's not because it's the native breed.


:: i like bright, neon-coloured mascaras and eyeliners.

so that some fella i'd set my blinkers upon could straight away spot me when i start batting my eyelashes.

seriously, i wear glasses so naturally i emphasise that feature.


:: i'm an INTP - introvert, intuitive, thinking, perceptive.

and yes, i'm this standoffish lone-ranger whose fair-mindedness is often mistaken for "cold-heartedness". duh?!

i don't give a fig that i'm called "bitch" either. i'm certain i'm *female*, but not sure about the dog bit though.

don't get me wrong, i love dogs too.


:: and talk of dogs...

i like the westmorland and yorkshire/silky terriers, and golden retrievers alot. no poodles, please.

why? they remind me too much of 'em yelping females. that's why.


:: had my first penfriend when i was at the tender age of ten.

i came across Stacy in this children magazine's penfriends column. couldn't imagine my excitement as i saw that bit *England*.

ah, the Queen! "the famous five"! the FA Cup!

and then over the years i acquainted with so many folks from all over the place that may be the major reason why i don't possess half the mentality and behavior of an average asian.


:: i studied right up till secondary/high school.

'cos the educational system here is a right cock-up. meaning: regurgitation is de rigeur. they don't give a shite to your being creative and thinking out of the box.

case in point: i'd wanted to join my secondary school computer club when it was first formed. guess what? i was told i couldn't because firstly, i wasn't a science stream student. and secondly, my maths and science scores were not up to par.

lame? that's how it works here. arts stream students like yours truly are still seen as academically inferior.

but look, who's having the last laugh, eh?


:: presently i'm pursuing a part-time degree with the University of Wales.

a Bachelor of Science with Honours in business administration, majoring Marketing. which i'll be completing this December.

supposed to hand in my thesis - which is my final paper - in June but due to work commitments, i'd rather pace myself out.



:: i'm a cunning linguist. no bullshite.

mostly self-taught except japanese which i learnt till basic level. i can't for the life of me read or write the language 'cos of the pictograms that's why!

languages that i can passibly read and write:
- spanish
- french
- italian
- smattering of portuguese
- smattering of scandinavian

for a pseudo-celt, celtic languages seem to escape me.


:: what's with this obssesion with languages then?

i came across this fable eons ago that goes like this:

a family of mice was threatened by a cat once. the mother mouse mustered all her courage and bravely/wobbly walked towards the cat:
"WOOF WOOF WOOF!!! GGGRRR WOOF!!"

said cat got scared of its wits, turned tail and scramed.

"mother, your awesome!" cried the baby mice.

"no, not really. but it sure is helpful knowing a second language," replied the mother. who obviously was in a state of huge relief.


during my short stay in london, some german teenager and a trio of italian nymphettes on separate occasions stopped giving me dirty looks immediately after i spoke to them a smattering of their tongues.

i simply said things like, "excuse me if you don't mind?", "cheers mate", blah blah. that sure is more than enough to put them in their places.


:: i wanted to be a rock star when i was seventeen.

till today whichever amateur rock/roll bands play at the pub, my foot goes a-tapping without fail.

but i have yet owned a guitar. sad or what. haven't get around buying one!


:: i enjoy doing things with my hands
- handicraft
- cross-stitching
- jewelry making

nothing is more satisfying than seeing your projects displayed around the house. or a cosmetic bag that is a size which you can chuck all your stuff in.

or wearing chokers/necklaces that are stamped with your personality. oh yes, i've got loads of it. ie: *pesonality*.

conceited git, me.


:: at any one time, i wanted to be:
- a lawyer
- a fighter pilot
- a policewoman
- a soccer player
- a teacher
- a business woman
- a writer/poet


:: actual experiential background
- software programmer
- computer course tutor
- co-ordinator / tech support
- IT recruitment consultant
- relief / substitute teacher
- customer service support
- administrative assistant
- temp secretary at a law firm
- temp clerk / typist
- temp Y2K database administrator
- temp receptionist
- temp marketing secretary
- IT course consultant
- presentation format planner


MORE SMUT...


:: i have a morbid fascination towards the following types:
- yanks
- canadians


:: most of whom happen to be one of the following:
- lawyers
- navy fighter pilots
- IT geeks


:: the only bloke i "love" after all these years, despite us not going out at all, is a canuck called Steve.

i've yet met anyone else who took a complete interest in my hobbies. like, despite not liking classical music, Steve borrowed someone's classical music CD.

knowing that i'm into photography, he bought a camera. and that i'm a football nut, he watched a few games on the telly and rightly blurted, "the premiership". one would only said such if they are a fan.

and in return, i started watching the NHL, supporting the Maple Leafs, and then got into road hockey. because Steve was a hockey amateur playing part-time with the local ice hockey league.

i'm not the sort who would do anything for a bloke. sadly, i don't know where he is right now.

it's really weird that us both would have the hots for each other 'cos we hated each other's guts the first time we met. ie: we made each other speechless with our own brand of sarcasm.

so much so that we nearly throttle the life out of each other. if not for my ex-boss playing the peace-maker.

it must be said that Steve is a rare gem whose devotion to a sickly ex (recounted by a friend who happened to be the latter's ex-colleague. how wee the world is) is something that one hardly comes across these days.

but because she rejected his proposals, citing his having "emotional baggage", he became withdrawn. stupid cow.

yeah, i like the way he snogged me. and if i ever see him again - we had a few times since but we didn't say anything clever - i'd be more than gladly bonk him.


:: there's another canuck whom i thought i had feelings for.

who's a complete tosser/jerk as i realised that he wanted me because he's lonely. i know he has a girlfriend back home. but that doesn't warrant his actions.

and due to this episode, i resolved not being anyone's *temporary* girlfriend.


:: my good/best friends tend to be english fellas.

strangely, except one who declared that he's attracted to me, some do not cut to the chase. i can't possibly wait till the cows come home for them to fess up, can i?

i'm keeping my options open, inspite of!


:: i'm prone to the occasional fling.

and no, no sordid revelations. :P


:: continental sods get on my nerves. that's why i don't fancy 'em one bit.

they really are totally smarmy, snooty, cheese-eating surrender monkeys, the whole lot of them. i mean, see how each and everyone of them gave up without a whimper when the nazis came marching in?

wimps.

oh and they think they are the most "cultured" people on this side of the cosmoverse. apart from their delusions in seeing themselves as "god's gifts".

also, their tastes for certain types of native women on this wee isle is quite rather dodgy. 'nuff said.

ps: my bro just told me that some wag used to say "don't trust the french".

indeed, they betrayed Joan of Arc to the english. and they went about rounding up the jews themselves to save their arses, didn't they?

[heisha]

ewwwwwwww. Who wrote that???