[climber07]

KIA put is best: China is doing what it does best, like a turtle it retreats back into it's shell. Their actions sort of remind me of a bratty 2 year old who closes his ears with his fingers and starts yelling and throwing a tamper tantrum because things aren't going his way.

Did China honestly think that they could host a Global Event and completely walk around any criticisms (form pollution to human rights)??? It's absolutely silly and just shows that the political maturity of the country is still way behind that of a "Superpower." If you want to be recognized on the world stage as a leader, you have to "grow a pair" or at least get some thicker skin and brush off the critics. Instead, China's obsession with it's "loss of face" and such extreme reaction to rather insignificant events just make them seem weak and incapable of responding in a civil matter to very basic social confrontation.

While it is true, that recent events in the Western media have not been unbiased and often portray news skewed to a certain viewpoint, you can't really point the finger when China's own media and internet is completely controlled and censored. When probably over 90% of mainland population still unaware of such events as the Tienanmen Square massacre, what did they really expect from the international community? This sudden burst of PRO-CHINA nationalism that we've seen in recent weeks will only progress and ultimately hurt China's image and economy. If they go back to the isolationism policy, they will have to deal with the consequences.

[Boris]

Several points by Climber that ring a bell with me.

I was in China having dinner the day the week China got the Olympics and of course everyone was talking about it and about how proud they where. I remember saying then, " watch out for the press, its a great opportunity to bring up all the things that people see bad about the way China behaves. " Lots of head nodding and then after the mandatory 30 second retention period the thought disappeared out of everyones head.

The complaining and tantrums being shown now is very " pot calling the kettle black ". China behaves in its own interest ( not alone in that by a long way ) and more than every is getting it back -- in spades. I agree whole heartedly with the post.

On a further note in relation to a part of another post. If as is intimated, another office has been handed responsibility for overseeing visa issue its no wonder that everyone is making statements about nothing has changed. If you went to where you thought the information should be got they would respond only as to how it related to them. They would never comment upon things that where not now their responsibility.

To that end my email ( as previously posted ) has not yet been answered. I live in hope !

[freeier]

to be fair ... different countries at different levels of development wants different things from the government.

90% (or maybe slightly lessor) of chinese probably still live in semi rural area with barely accessibility to regular livelihood essentials like water (yes! even in beijing i would guess at least half the residence dont have enough water to bath everyday!)...
they dont have the mind and mood to care about the human rights abuse or lack of rights in tibet or even in their own country. what they want is for the government to provide them with the right infrastructure and the right development.

in the first place, is it wrong for chinese to stop issuing visas at the border ? i don't know, but i guess in most context of the world visas are usually given out by consulates in their own country.

the business community are taking it for granted. everyone wants the access to profits in china, but is choosing to live in hk for the facilities and quality of life.
in china government's context, they would probably want to protest why is the US and the westerns using what convenience them to protest to China ? why US businesses are not simply stopping business with china because of the human rights abuse ? there are double standards behind this whole event.

this is similar to the pilot's work by rule campaign. they do everything by the rules and the whole company gets into big turmoil as non-breaking of break and time rules mean flights get delayed and stuffs.
china government is telling everyone that if you want to play by the rules, then forgo the profit that you might make by slipping thru the grey areas ?

flew in to beijing yesterday and never saw any issues with all the people in front of me getting in thru. the airport is amazingly efficient! even more efficient than the HK one in my opinion (as measured by the time we needed to wait for our luggages)

[KnowItAll]

>> why US businesses are not simply stopping business with china
>> because of the human rights abuse ? there are double standards
>> behind this whole event.

Absolutely. No doubts about it all!

[Boris]

Originally Posted by KnowItAll

>> why US businesses are not simply stopping business with china
>> because of the human rights abuse ? there are double standards
>> behind this whole event.

Absolutely. No doubts about it all!

If only it where that simple.

Governments boycott, business pays taxes so the government can play games. Business also pays politicians so that they WON'T boycott anything that is in their interest to make a profit with. UNLESS it affects their competitors. Imagine if ALL business stopped immediately buying from everyone that " high minded civilians " disliked.
Would be long list and we would be in the dark ages within a month.

Before that China would dump all its treasury holdings in USD and the US would be down the toilet in a week. They could do the same to the Euro / GBP / CHF - get the picture. It would make the Sub Prime Crisis look like a semi colon on a giant map of the world.

This answer is mainly pointed at Freeier but your header was easier to reply to.

[climber07]

Last time I checked Hong Kong was part of China...was it not??? Yeah it's a "Special Administrative Region" but for all practical purposes its part of China, so the whole idea of controlling travel from HK into mainland is a bit silly to begin with.

Second, China has absolutely the right of doing whatever they want to their immigration regulations. However, it's the way they've done it that pisses people off... The lack of any direct communication, the blatant lying by Beijing over the policy change. The corrupt bureaucrats and mid-level government officials who are power-trip running wild, that is the issue. It's the lack of a concrete information infrastructure and the less than delicate "public relations" that drives most people mad.

Originally Posted by freeier

90% (or maybe slightly lessor) of chinese probably still live in semi rural area with barely accessibility to regular livelihood essentials like water (yes! even in beijing i would guess at least half the residence dont have enough water to bath everyday!)

What the hell do you think people mean by "human rights" ??? That's the f**king point!!! "You" (By the word YOU I mean China Government) can't feed and bathe the vast portion of your population yet you want to be perceived as a Global "superpower" based in part on the money and economy built up by foreigners seeking to exploit your cheap ass labor!!! And on top of that, you use the money not for the infrastructure but in large part to build up your military. Brilliant!!!!

The business community may have reaped certain benefits as you mention, but it sure as hell wasn't a one way street. China wanted the foreign companies there and the money and infrastructure that comes along with those business. Plus, if it wasn't for all the foreign companies how could they possibly get the inspirations for the all the "imitation market" goods and other corporate espionage. China's success and advancement in technological and economic sectors in large part due to learning from and in many cases directly copying foreign products and foreign business infrastructure. That "educational" experience bears a certain cost.

[KnowItAll]

>> the whole idea of controlling travel from HK into mainland is a bit
>> silly to begin with.

While HK is a part of China, its entry policies are different from the mothership.

So entry from HK into China has to be controlled.

If Guam was autonomous and had its own policies, I'm sure the US would also implement controls and checks.

[KnowItAll]

>> The business community may have reaped certain benefits as
>> you mention, but it sure as hell wasn't a one way street. China
>> wanted the foreign companies there and the money and
>> infrastructure that comes along with those business.

With due respect, that is also the same argument drunk old brits use in Wanchai and often at the FCC when they talk to an Indian ... "If it wasnt for us Brits... you'd not have a railway system".

[climber07]

Originally Posted by KnowItAll

>> The business community may have reaped certain benefits as
>> you mention, but it sure as hell wasn't a one way street. China
>> wanted the foreign companies there and the money and
>> infrastructure that comes along with those business.

With due respect, that is also the same argument drunk old brits use in Wanchai and often at the FCC when they talk to an Indian ... "If it wasnt for us Brits... you'd not have a railway system".

The main difference is one was via invitation, the other was a justification for forceful colonization. A bit different.

[Stevo75]

well there's no multis no how, applying from Australia as per this url to the consular website.
Additional Documents Are Required For Chinese Visa (tourism & business)

or

Additional Documents Are Required For Chinese Visa (tourism & business)
2008/04/14

From 15 April 2008, additional documents are required for Chinese Visa (tourism & business).

For"L" visa (tourism/visiting relatives), please provide:

- One completed application form;

- Your passport;

- One recent colour passport photo;

- Return ticket;

- Proof of hotel reservation if you go for tourism;

- Proof of relations if you go to visit relatives and you were not born in China.

For "F" visa (business visa), please provide:

- One completed application form;

- Your passport;

- One recent colour passport photo;

- Return ticket;

- Proof of hotel reservation;

- Visa Notification letter from the competent office of the Chinese government. Your inviter in China should get it for you and forward it to you to support your visa application.

And the Chinese Embassy will not issue visas of multi-entry.

So it's not all business as usual as per the pap spouted by the foreign office wombats. Proof that multis aren't being issued,.. and for those that get them,.. good luck to you...treasure them.

PRC acting like recalcitrant four year olds taking their bat and ball home because someone told them they broke the rules of the game (or was that games?)