[Sleuth]

Originally Posted by Skyhook

Didnt the fanatical Muslim faction kill Ghandi ?

It seems that the moment somebody promotes a peaceful mantra of united equality in those regions, the fanatical muslims jump in and kill them off....

Any Muslims here brave enough to explain to me why ?

I agree that India would have been much better off as a combined nation with Pakistan etc, now we have a ticking time bomb with a 50 / 50 chance that a revolution will take place.

Lets hope that during that revolution, if it happens, that some crazed Muslim fanatic doesnt get his hands on the nuke button faced with defeat, taking everybody out....

From what I have seen, the Hindus in India also manage to keep up in the senseless killing of others category. So I think if the Muslims didn't do it, someone else would bravely step into the breach.
Too many people with a vested interest in instability. Ditto for the Mid East. If peace were to suddenly break out, there would be an awful lot of people losing an awful lot of power and privilege.
I still think Ghandi wanted to keep the country united. But I have (recently) been wrong on similar matters.

[PDLM]

Originally Posted by Sleuth

Okay, then scratch that. From what I see in the press, I thought Muslims in India were a rather small minority.
I believe I got the Ghandi part right, though?
And if there are more in India than Pakistan, why can't they figure out some way to get together on issues? Or are the Muslims in India just sort of ignored?

Actually, I take that back. Pakistan did have a smaller Muslim population than India, but they are breeding faster, so they have just overtaken it. They both have ~150-160M Muslims, but in India that's only about 13% of the population.

Fundamentally, religion in government is a problem. As soon as matters of irrational faith are taken out of the political environment the better it will be for all concerned (except a few dodgy religious types).

[MS@HK]

A fanatical Hindu killed Gandhi.

A unified India would have been troublesome to say the least...

Bhutto was no saint , but I guess a violent unjust death does wonders for one's afterlife.

[Skyhook]

YouTube - BENAZIR BHUTTO SPEAKS ABOUT THE THREAT

She was a brave woman, and if everything she says on this video was true, she had Pakistans best interests at heart.

And wow, MS@HK, if a Hindu killed Ghandi, that really makes a mockery of what religion stands for. Any group that can senselessly kill such an inspirational man of peace like that, really poisons what its meant to represent.

Ghandi was one of the great men of the last century.

[MS@HK]

Originally Posted by PDLM

Fundamentally, religion in government is a problem. As soon as matters of irrational faith are taken out of the political environment the better it will be for all concerned (except a few dodgy religious types).

I think we give religion more than its due. At the end of the day they are just silly rules to live your life which lots of people 'try' to adhere to...and usually its not humanly possible to do so.

I think the feeling of belonging to a group ("the pack") is much stronger. "Us versus them" works in all denominations from two upwards. And groups under seige work remarkably and dangerously well...as a lot of people in Islam seem to believe.

Replace chritianity with islam in the current geopolitical context...as indeed was the case when the arab civilization was at its peak and I tend to think things would not be much different. One group under religious sanction to protect itself against a perceived slight on its 'beleifs'.

Patriotism is of course just an extension of this stupidity ...but that is still politically correct and therefore I will end here.

[Skyhook]

wow good post MS@HK, I so agree with you.

In some ways, Mao had the right idea by removing the influence of religion all together, for ultimate authoritarian control, although at the extreme end of the scale and destructive in almost every other area of government.

But I honestly believe that as a human species, the world needs to eliminate all religions, and all divisions, for us to completely evolve socially/harmoniously/technologically.

I know it sounds like a bit of a Star Trek united federation pipe dream, but i honestly think, that is the version of the world , i'd like to see evolve into..

A video I found on youtube explains a lot of back ground info about the situation in Pakistan, a pakistani's view.

YouTube - Pakistan in Emergency: A Nation Ruined...

[Boris]

For all of you rattling on about religion. This event has absolutely NOTHING to to with religious beliefs, its about destabilising an already unstable country in the hope of gaining power from those who control it.

Everyone, not only Musharaf, is playing games.
For the now departed Bhutto, she saw she had a more than an evens chance of being taken out, but she was a political eunuch based outside the country.
Hence her gamble to come back and blame Musharraf for everything, even though cozying up to him.

To make it interesting she made a " living declaration " ( http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/as...ity/index.html ) which will take centre stage , rather than the facts ( http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=201040 ) and this will benefit her agenda after death. Politics at its " never let the truth get in the way of a good story " best.

The reports of her being shot before the bomb is not the hallmark of everyones favorite mass assassin, Al- Qaeda. The explosion was also not insignificant for a simple body vest single suicide bomber. So it gets stranger and stranger.

One name is conspicuous by its absence and connections in some very murky places. A man no one has yet tried to kill but gains everything from the events around him and is now the only " independent " game in town. Lets see the crocodile tears flood from Mr Sharifs eyes.

[Sleuth]

Originally Posted by Skyhook

But I honestly believe that as a human species, the world needs to eliminate all religions, and all divisions, for us to completely evolve socially/harmoniously/technologically.
I know it sounds like a bit of a Star Trek united federation pipe dream, but i honestly think, that is the version of the world , i'd like to see evolve into..

Sort of like the thinking that more people are killed in God's name than for any other reason.
So if you could just eliminate God.... But religion has existed forever and will continue to exist until the "final question" is positively answered.
Besides, God is just the scapegoat. If you eliminate God, people will just find another "us versus them" reason to go about killing each other. Religion, country, race, favorite football team--whatever works that day.
Isn't that a rather pessimistic viewpoint?

Also agree with Boris that Al-Qaeda is too easy. But I am sure a "thorough" investigation by the Pakistani ISS will confirm their fault in a short while. Then that can be used as an excuse to go rampaging against various enemies of the state, thus allowing the cycle to repeat.
Oops, pessimism again.

[Skyhook]

Depends if you have a sheep like mob mentality Sleuth.

As I dont, and have never prescribed to any peer group, I am a firm believer of the self preservation society, an independant thinking approach to life. I do whats best for my family and what I believe to be morally right. Basic human requirements, actually.

But the Star Trek analogy still looks to me, as the best solution, if we want the world paddling the canoe of life, in the same proactive direction.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by Skyhook

Depends if you have a sheep like mob mentality Sleuth.

As I dont, and have never prescribed to any peer group, I am a firm believer of the self preservation society, an independant thinking approach to life. I do whats best for my family and what I believe to be morally right. Basic human requirements, actually.

But the Star Trek analogy still looks to me, as the best solution, if we want the world paddling the canoe of life, in the same proactive direction.

Have you been drinking a lot over the holiday?

I can't make any relevant sense out of your writing. Maybe I should brush up on my Jazz Disjointed Poet Matrix Babble.

As for " an independant thinking approach to life. I do whats best for my family and what I believe to be morally right." I am sure the unsuspecting soul standing next to the bomber could have had the same idea. In the same way it didn't protect him, it protects none of us.