[hullexile]

Originally Posted by srvblooze

Not to worry fellas, Nick Bostrom's got it all sorted out. Here's the deal- We are "almost certainly" living in a simulation run by beings much more advanced than us.

http://www.simulation-argument.com/matrix.html

So play nice and perhaps we'll get extra game credits.

logical and does not break any scientific laws, but then of course the same logic would surely apply to the advanced technology running the simulation, so they would then probably be a simulation of yet another more advanced technology, who in turn................

[dean-dzai]

I am noticing from the poll that we have one Mormon in our midst. Are we going to invite the Mormon to share his faith or beat him or her to it with some opposition? I know which is more fun, but I also know which is more fair.

[hullexile]

Back to work I am afraid. I may get my reward in the afterlife but I need to pay the wife's credit card bill in this one. At least I am not a Mormon, just think of the bills with all those wives

[climber07]

Originally Posted by PDLM

I think one of the core differences between many religious and non-religious types is a need (or lack of it) for some ultimate "purpose" in life, defined in grand terms beyond fairly straightforward things such as being happy and comfortable.

PDLM, as you probably already know, the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything is actually 42, you have no further need for inquiry.

Originally Posted by hullexile

I have no problem with science, why should I? My problem is that opposite of what you say, many people use science to justify closed minds. No, it is not scientific so it can't be true without ever testing whether there is any truth in it. The open minded truth searching science you talk about is a utopian dream ignoring the reality of scientific research funding.

You state that my argument about faith in science is used by all religious nutters (no offence taken) but similarly the argument that religion is used to control the uneducated masses is as old as they come. So am I part of the uneducated masses, or part of the control mechanism perhaps? Why are there so many educated believers?

Yes I don't understand God, but then I don't understand my wife either and she is just a mere mortal.

First, anyone who knows me, realizes that my statements are broad generalizations and are not meant to be offensive to any specific individual. Also, my wife and her entire family are extremely devout Christians and I hold them in the highest respect. My agnosticism stems from my Soviet upbringing (where theology was replaced by communist dogma....which was later sucessfully converted to $$$) but not at the expense of education, science, logic or morals.

There is also, absolutely no question that there are many highly educated religious people. In fact, monks and priests like Gregor Mendel have often made great strides in the field of science. It is important to say, that science in itself does not disprove the "existence" of God, it merely does not establish it as a pre-requisite.

I agree with PDLM that many "educated believers" feel that they need to have a purpose and ultimate goal to justify their existence, and organized religion is one of the paths they choose. (Some drink poisoned cool-aid and wear Nike's). My problem is that more often than not, those "believers" become intollerant of beliefs of others and begin aggressively pushing their agenda and their beliefs onto everyone they come across. Most Western religions will claim that they are the only ones who "know the truth" and their narrow path is the correct one (because they've read it is an old book). This causes conflicts among many other groups who do not want to adhere to that version, and then we have fun religious "extracurricular" activities, like human sacrifices, slavery, rape & torture, crusades, Inquisition, witch hunts, pogroms, thirty year war, Puritan "moral police", ethnic cleansing, Islamic jihads...I'll stop there for now.

My view is this: Believe what you want to believe, if it makes you happy, just leave those who are not interested out of it (unfortunately, many simply cannot help themselves).

P.S. I would make a better attempt to understand your wife....as you have to live with her daily (I found that actually listening helps a lot)....God on the other hand can wait.

[srvblooze]

So, am I to understand that my wife is NOT, in fact, God as I have been led to believe?

Hmm....seems she has some explaining to do

[climber07]

Originally Posted by srvblooze

So, am I to understand that my wife is NOT, in fact, God as I have been led to believe?

Hmm....seems she has some explaining to do

The key is not to let her know that you know.......

[meemiathai]

Originally Posted by Skyhook

So if we are lead to believe your theory Hux, when you take a flight in a modern jet aircraft, whats keeping it up in the air ?

Science or God ?

I always thought it was superman underneath pushing. No?

Science? What science?

[dean-dzai]

Originally Posted by hullexile

Back to work I am afraid. I may get my reward in the afterlife but I need to pay the wife's credit card bill in this one. At least I am not a Mormon, just think of the bills with all those wives

Here is a trailer of ex-Mormons talking about polygamy (husbands having many wives). It is the trailer, you can watch the full presentation here.

Trailer: Lifting the Veil of Polygamy

Curious to hear a Mormon response to this video.

[meemiathai]

Originally Posted by climber07

I'm sorry, Religious nut jobs always use this argument, but it just plain stupid.

Science, does not close doors on new discoveries and in fact the basis of science is to continuously challenge the status quo. If Science, through experimentation, observable and verifiable data comes to a conclusion that ultimately there was a "Supreme Being" it will accept that conclusion. A theory, is a plausible logical explanation based on scientific on logical method, which has not yet been 100% proven so it cannot become Law.

However, Religion closes the mind of the believers and makes people justify their measly existence by reading R / X-Rated bed time stories and wishing to collect their rewards in "afterlife." It forces the observed to accept everything on faith and NEVER to question it.

Religion is a wonderful tool to control the weak minded and per Napoleon (what keeps the poor from murdering the rich). Religion is the shepherd to control the masses and when you try to have a conversation with a "Regular Joe Blow" in rural US, you understand why Religion is necessary.

Religion is necessary to maintain order and peace through fear. It provides the uneducated masses with moral basis and guidance which keeps them from murdering each other (at least in large part). Until we no longer need manual labor, and progress as society to a higher level of general education and intelligence, Religion is necessary to maintain control. It keeps people happier than drugs.

Explain this to me: If You are GOD (A perfect and supreme being), would you still suffer from such human characteristics as INSECURITY, LONELINESS, NEED TO BE LOVED and ACCEPTED?? Would you create a species of beings who would do nothing else but "SERVE" you and "WORSHIP" you? And if they don't you will punish them and make them SUFFER?

That sounds very EGOTISTICAL and rather PATHETIC for a supreme being. But then again.....you can't question GOD because he's all knowing and you are noting.....I forgot...

Bring on the negative marks...I'm so "mean" that I probably made someone cry again..... I'm just expressing my thoughts, if you don't like them....c'est la vie.

There is one more word for it. CHILDISH! I stopped playing god at the age of six. You know, playing with little characters and pretend yourself controls everything.

Well said climber!
I just cried.

[meemiathai]

Originally Posted by hullexile

So what came before the big bang? Where did the energy come from? From scientific law you can not create energy from nothing so there must have been something there. What was it? Where did it come from? If I've read my Lao Tse correctly the Taoists would argue that 'nothing' created everything and therefore 'nothingness' is the ultimate state. Basically I don't know what the truth is, we probably never will for certain. I think I know, you think you know, but none of us can prove our case. If anyone here can prove their case to me I'm willing to listen.

I remember myself started thinking how this world came into existence at the age of 6. And then I was introduced by this Catholic primary school I went to that it was God who did it. Then I started to ask who then created God, they told me to shut up and just listen and believe.

Just because there are things we do not yet understand in this world does not make us automatically have to believe in Superman or Harry Porter, does it?

What makes God more convincing than Superman?
Can anyone answer me? They are both story books! At least I have seen videos of Superman flying!

There is one thing very smart about those priests and preachers, that is, they are very quick to see which person is stupid enough to feed and which is not.