[Boris]

So why isn't this guy in it, unless you count AN Other.

"Scored 54,896 runs at an average of 39.55. He is still the 5th highest scoring player of all time. He wasn't just a batsman thought. He took 2876 wickets at an average of 17.92 - the 6th highest wicket taker of all time. On two occasions (1873, 1876) he scored 2000 runs and took 100 wickets in one season. He also make 887 catches which is still the second highest number of catches taken by anyone in their career. All of this was done in 43 years between 1865 and 1908 when he eventually retired aged 59."

FYI its WG Grace.

Maybe you feel unless you have seen them on the telly, they don't count.

[shilo507]

Originally Posted by PDLM

I really don't see how Tufnell and Warne can be on the same list as the others.

Absolutely. Good point about WG Grace by Boris and originally DirkStruan) also. But anyway, that's the things about top ten lists of any description - so selective.

[Crocodile]

Originally Posted by Boris

So why isn't this guy in it, unless you count AN Other.

"Scored 54,896 runs at an average of 39.55. He is still the 5th highest scoring player of all time. He wasn't just a batsman thought. He took 2876 wickets at an average of 17.92 - the 6th highest wicket taker of all time. On two occasions (1873, 1876) he scored 2000 runs and took 100 wickets in one season. He also make 887 catches which is still the second highest number of catches taken by anyone in their career. All of this was done in 43 years between 1865 and 1908 when he eventually retired aged 59."

FYI its WG Grace.

Maybe you feel unless you have seen them on the telly, they don't count.

Without wanting to sound disrepectful, I thought we were talking about Test matches, not first class career. A total of 9 wickets and 1098 runs over 22 matches International Test Matches doesn't really stack up against the others in the list. Yes, a great player, but not the up with the best all-rounders in history.

BTW, the Tufnell thing is just a joke isn't it?!

[shilo507]

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Without wanting to sound disrepectful, I thought we were talking about Test matches, not first class career. A total of 9 wickets and 1098 runs over 22 matches International Test Matches doesn't really stack up against the others in the list. Yes, a great player, but not the up with the best all-rounders in history.

BTW, the Tufnell thing is just a joke isn't it?!

Well, in defence of WG Grace the first ever test match was not played until 1877 or so and long journey times meant fewer could be played so he was severely disadvantaged in that respect.

And, yes, I am sure the inclusion of Phil Tufnell was tongue in cheek. Useful bowler but I don't know why he ever bothered turning up at the crease. Perhaps Geoff Boycott bowling with his cap
on would have been a less controversial inclusion?

One other thing, wicket-keepers tend to make useful batsmen but do not get included as all-rounders. Some have had great test match batting averages.

One thing that keeps Botham and Sobers at the top of this poll was their fielding ability on top of batting and bowling. Both took a phenomenal amount of catches.

[kombuchakid]

Sir Ian Botham has been knighted

[jonnye]

And from an Aussie perspective more recently - either of the Waugh twins? Admittedly they ended up being batsmen, but at the start of their careers were definitely all-rounders. And could field a bit too...
Phil 'the cat' Tufnell did make me laugh.

[Crocodile]

Well, you have left out the Australian bowler who has a Test Match history of:
-Batting top score of 201 (Not Out), over 93 innings, including 28 Not Outs
-Bowling average of 26.14, with a best of 7/37 and taking 259 wickets

__________________________________________________ _____
There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics.

[jonnye]

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Well, you have left out the Australian bowler who has a Test Match history of:
-Batting top score of 201 (Not Out), over 93 innings, including 28 Not Outs
-Bowling average of 26.14, with a best of 7/37 and taking 259 wickets

__________________________________________________ _____
There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics.

Hmmm. Not a great advertisement for Bangladesh as a Test nation really, when Jason Gillespie scores 201 not out against them. Other Aussie all-rounders could have been Richie Benaud or Keith Miller I guess.

[Stoob]

I think to determine a true 'all rounder' you need to ask if you would include them in a team on the strength of their individual skill in either batting or bowling...

e.g. would you pick Shane Warne as a bowler? = 'no brainer' but would you pick him as a batsman only? = probably not.

In my opinion Sir Beefy is one of few in the list that fits the bill..

[HKFella]

The poll should have been about the second-greatest all rounder in test cricket after Gary Sobers.