[charlesng]

For those who is planning or thinking about doing business in China. Here's my experience I would like to share:

I took over a bontique shop in a department store selling ladies fashion for my wife. The woman who we took over had been doing business in the department store for 8 months within that financial year. So that we signed an agreement that she would pay for the 8 months charges and we will pay for the rest.

At the end of the financial, the department store charged us for about RMB11000 for the 12 months and they worked out this woman owes us about RMB7800.

We rang her up and met up in a resturant(they got the place wrong and we had to go to where they were). The woman had another guy sitting with her. My wife spoke to the woman. The woman and the guy did not say word. The guy kept smoking and calling his mobile. After they igorned us for 5 minutes. We shown the woman the receipt and asked how she is going to pay us. She just said "speak to him."

My wife said that we were doing business with her and she is the one who signed the agreement. Had nothing to do with him. She just said "speak to him."

This guy started shouting in not quite perfect Mandarin, I could probably understand 10% of what he said. Basically he did not want to pay. He kept point the stupid finger while arguing with my wife. So I slapped his hand away. Then he said "I will called "two guys" to beat you up". So he made phone call.

Well, I happened to know how to get hold of "two guys". Just need a bit of money(RMB200 each). So I made my phone call.

By this time my wife and I were sitting in a separate table. My phone rang and said there were actual 5 guys outside and I invited them to come in for a cup of coffee(my "guys" came in first, they are the fattest mainland Chinese I've seen so far. But they are quite tall though). Then their "guys" came in. The "big brother" is the fattest one out of them all. They also had five.

By this time, 5 big guys were staring at another 5 big guys. The woman and the guy left with their "guys". Then we pay for our "guys" (and their coffee) and left.

OK, what I worried the most is that the "guys" might hurt my wife. I don't really care about the RMB7000. But what pxssed me off is this stupid woman signed the agreement and did not want to pay. Plus, got this piece of shxt shouting at my wife.

You guys might ask "why don't you take them to court?". I dont' know where they live. Plus, it turns out the real name she is actually using is different from her mainland ID card. It's very common in China that people use names are different from their ID cards. Don't be suprised. So I have no proof.

Anyway, someone from the "white side"(working in the police force) is going to help us to get this money. Will keep you guys posted.

[Boris]

I take it from the way you word what happened and how you did things, that you are HK Chinese ?

Which begs the question , how frigging stupid can you be.

Contract in China are worthless and you get paid cash up front, if you go searching for a payment 9 times out of 10, you won't get it. What on earth made you think otherwise? Do you think the mainland is a civilized honorable place for business. ?

Why do you think ordinary Chinese don't like to do business with other Mainland Chinese? Because unless they are the most trusted family members with a history of honour, you will end up taking it up the arse.

On the other hand, if you have written this post to find some sympathy. You will find it easier in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

What and plonker you are and deserved what you got.

[KnowItAll]

>> Contract in China are worthless and you get paid cash
>> up front,

Amen to that. Don't rely on anyone paying you once they've walked away, even if you're the PLA / PSB (which means you've got power.. but the deal might be dodgy).

If they do, thats a bonus.

Chasing money in China is often not worth the risks, when it is such a small amount.

On the other hand.. there are also plenty of stories of HK companies and individuals ripping of mainlanders too.

[sarpesius]

Originally Posted by charlesng

For those who is planning or thinking about doing business in China. Here's my experience I would like to share:....

Often when someone posts on this forum with a problem, there are some forum regulars who come on to enjoy telling the poster how "stupid, lazy, etc" they are. Just ignore them.

Obviously you have accidentally come in contact with a criminal class. The more you get involved with such people, the dirtier you will have to become.

7800 RMB does not seem like a lot of money, but that is up to you. I would just walk away from this problem completely. It has already cost you an extra 2500. If your business location is frequented by this class of person, I would also consider moving to a different location.

[KnowItAll]

>> Just ignore them.

But, learn something.

If someone knows enough about China to call "five guys" they should know .. this is the same in any world.. you call them "five guys" in China, in HK I might call them "five lawyers who charge $4000 an hour".

You cannot win in these situations. Only people who win are "the guys".

[Boris]

Originally Posted by sarpesius

Often when someone posts on this forum with a problem, there are some forum regulars who come on to enjoy telling the poster how "stupid, lazy, etc" they are. Just ignore them.

Obviously you have accidentally come in contact with a criminal class. The more you get involved with such people, the dirtier you will have to become.

7800 RMB does not seem like a lot of money, but that is up to you. I would just walk away from this problem completely. It has already cost you an extra 2500. If your business location is frequented by this class of person, I would also consider moving to a different location.

And you Sarpesius are talking out your arse.
I challenge ANYONE here to say I have not enough experience in this field of doing business in China.

Just because I or others come on here and call people on the things they say, does not make us trolls or masochists trying to prove they are superior than the rest. A lot of us have the experience to back up what we say. Meet me at a Geo party and you will change your view quick smart.

The comments from KIA sum up his view. he has met me ( more than once ) and knows where I am coming from on this subject.

The guy, especially if he is HK Chinese or Chinese by any descent is a pillock to have done what he did in the way he did it. Period.

FYI he isn't posting a problem, he is posting his guilt and wants other to share his pain. Just see the words about him bringing his " guys " to the meeting. Not someone who wouldn't understand what the rules are in this game you might think. Its not Triads and he is trying to sidetrack the event by headlining the post with this.

My experience is having businesses in China. Having my life threatened trying to protect foreigners who have cocked it up on the mainland. Have contracts forged so well that if they hadn't put my signature upside down I would not have detected it. Had government officials try to corral me into " Guangxi " position that would have required significant reciprocation in financial areas and on and on and on.

Whats your experience, shopping in Shenzhen because it appears that having local ethnic knowledge is not enough -- by a long way.

[sarpesius]

some respondents on this forum seem are confused about their logic.

On the one hand, they want to say the OP, charlesng, was naive for believing in a mainland contract.

On the other hand, they concede that he knew the system well enough to call his "five guys" when the time came.

So these posters have to make up their minds.

Mr. Ng's story was straightforward and honest. He did not waste any time calling other posters stupid or bragging about what he knows. His post teaches us more about China than 50 average posts.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by sarpesius

some respondents on this forum seem are confused about their logic.

On the one hand, they want to say the OP, charlesng, was naive for believing in a mainland contract.

On the other hand, they concede that he knew the system well enough to call his "five guys" when the time came.

So these posters have to make up their minds.

Mr. Ng's story was straightforward and honest. He did not waste any time calling other posters stupid or bragging about what he knows. His post teaches us more about China than 50 average posts.

You really don't get it do you and you REALLY, REALLY should look at the post and how it written not just the words on the page.

By mentioning his 5 guys and the way they had a meeting shows the opposite to the rest of the post and the supposition that he is a good hearted guy doing something and bad people are cheating him. We do not concede that he new what he was doing, only pointing out the inconsistency.

PLEEEEAAASSSEEEE !!

Why did he not use a Shenzhen lawyer, at least?
Why after doing a commercial transaction does he even not know addresses and contacts of the principle?
Lets find out when committing to the remainder of the contract he didn't get money up front. Because the golden rule in China is everyone lies and everyone is for themselves. Even family.

So Sarpesius, its not my logic that is flawed here and your comment of " Mr. Ng's story was straightforward and honest. " is logically laughable.

Also " His post teaches us more about China than 50 average posts. " is Harry Potter.

I think people who post on Geo should be helped by all of us. Wisdom passed down by experience is true wisdom after all . Fair comment is argument with rules.
People who just post a subject to get sympathy know where to find it, I have shown you where.

[beachball]

Boris's last post is spot on. Could not agree more.

[charlesng]

Originally Posted by Boris

You really don't get it do you and you REALLY, REALLY should look at the post and how it written not just the words on the page.

By mentioning his 5 guys and the way they had a meeting shows the opposite to the rest of the post and the supposition that he is a good hearted guy doing something and bad people are cheating him. We do not concede that he new what he was doing, only pointing out the inconsistency.

PLEEEEAAASSSEEEE !!

Why did he not use a Shenzhen lawyer, at least?
Why after doing a commercial transaction does he even not know addresses and contacts of the principle?
Lets find out when committing to the remainder of the contract he didn't get money up front. Because the golden rule in China is everyone lies and everyone is for themselves. Even family.

So Sarpesius, its not my logic that is flawed here and your comment of " Mr. Ng's story was straightforward and honest. " is logically laughable.

Also " His post teaches us more about China than 50 average posts. " is Harry Potter.

I think people who post on Geo should be helped by all of us. Wisdom passed down by experience is true wisdom after all . Fair comment is argument with rules.
People who just post a subject to get sympathy know where to find it, I have shown you where.

Boris,

I don't need sympathy from anyone. I am a big boy now. I just want to share the experience with people in here.

I am a British born Chinese. I have been working in Shenzhen and Hong Kong for over 3 years. May be my English is getting rusty. However, I don't need to get an Oxford dictionary to find shit and syphillis.

I didn't know "The five guys" at all. It's one of my private taxi drivers knew how to get them. It was my first time meeting "The five guys" on that night.

Have you used a Shenzhen lawyer yet? There are as good as the "guys".

"everyone lies and everyone is for themselves"....Same as anywhere in the world. I believe that there are always good people and bad people. Someone is willing to help you, someone is willing to step on you. It's not my first time mistrusted someone. It won't be the last.

To me, even I don't get this RMB7000, it's still a good deal. I am still an amature to this business game in China. But the lesson I've learnt from this is more beneficial for me in my future development. That's why I think it would be good to post here to share with others.