[Krad]

Originally Posted by Skyhook

The motto was infact, " When in Rome, do as Romans do".

Yes, we know, but "When in Rome, do the Romans" is a much more fun motto. :P

[XI_YAN]

interesting thread

[beachball]

Originally Posted by PDLM

The first of these is simply not true - DHs go through the Resident line at HK Immigration. The second is limited to a very few clubs these days - the vast majority have no such restriction (e.g. HKFC, HKCC, FCC,...). The third is, unfortunately, true and is outrageous racial discrimination.

Strictly speaking none of these (whether true or not) is racist per se. Yes, there is discrimination, but it is technically based on immigration status (employment vs. DH visa) not on race.

Also, I am not sure I fully agree on the third point. DH helpers are in Hong Kong under a specific program, which provides certain benefits (minimum wage, waiver of certain immigration requirements, exemption from taxes and MPF, etc.) and, in turn, has certain restrictions (e.g., no entitlement to PR status). This is consistent with (actually, probably more favorable/generous than) arrangement in most other parts of the world.

[neil_010]

Wow! Racism!!Discrimination!!!Is there anything new about this??? Are not we being discriminated even in our own countries or experienced being outcasted one point in time in our life, by our own families, friends, in our own houses?..come on! people of the world, this thing would never end!..never dream about it!..liars are the ones pretending that this does not exist in all places on earth!..

I too am new in HK, just got here last month and I too have been working in many places in Asia such as in Vietnam, Japan, Thailand, Macau and now in HK and I am a Filipino myself. I fully understand both the difficulty and the challenge of blending with the international community abroad or fitting-in with the local people of the country we are in, especially when the country is obviously economically better off than ours. It is a fact that wherever we go, we carry in our self the general notion of the world about us and our country and I think that goes with any nationality as well. It is a fact also that many use this notion as a basis on how we should be generally treated. Unfortunately, our nation has not yet convinced the whole world that Filipino race is as dignified as the rest of the countries in Asia where economy is a lot more stable than us. The world is truly materialistic and not easily approving. Furthermore, the history of the nation plays a vital role in how the world perceives us now. Again, this goes to all peoples of the world. Unfortunately, the non levelheaded ones are the fastest to misjudge us. As probably like in HK or even in US, where the word “Filipina” to some has been equally meant as domestic helpers. Indeed, this is very disdainful!, not because being a DH is unworthy but because of the materialistic & judgmental eyes of those who labels us as such and thinks that we are species of lower form because we are humbled to that category. This people just do not know more of our history as they know about Filipina women who changed their diapers and washed their ass when they were yet babies. There is one uncertainty in my mind though as to whether these morons are to be blamed or it’s our country’s social & economic problems that brought these Filipina away from the land and suffer while bringing up other people’s society. For the wise, they are indeed heroes of both our nation and the other.

In times of being treated unfairly abroad, in any form and intensity, one of the simplest means to handle it is to not take things personally, ofcourse, unless the act is an obvious violation of your lawful right to exist peacefully on that country. Obviously, you and I have made it to HK, which simply means that we have passed the utmost obstacle that racism can bring about or we can say that the tentacle of racism in HK is short to catch us and keep us out. Racism is, most of the time, harmless in a sense that you can get away from it and continue your pilgrim by simply ignoring it. There are many ways to blend in and each race may have different and exclusive way of doing that. As you said, “you have reached certain level of paranoia”, I would like to take that as more of a positive reaction to survive and dwell in. But you must not continue with that, at least in my opinion. The way we represent our self as a foreigner in a country has lots to do in the way people would treat us especially in a long term and personal basis. I believe you have better opportunity to be good and excel and be recognized as you are yourself an educated guy. Be very familiar about the way of life, the way people think, what are the “acceptable” and the “taboo” by culture and society and just try not to go against them. After all, it’s our own decision to live in another people’s land.

[wsuperfun]

The first complaint is the same as saying the police is not right for prosecuting someone littering while not prosecuting everyone in the world doing the same thing; while not remembering the littering is illegal in the first place. However, I am not suggesting selective law implementation is the right practice.

Originally Posted by takoyakiballs

I am new in HK, just moved here for a new job. I have been working overseas (within asia) for more than 10 years in a professional field. I believe I have reached certain level of paranoia from being treated differently, in varying degree, in a country not my own. Two of my recent experience are, one in pacific place, when I was sitting with my legs crisscorssed on one of the benches in the lobby, with my earphone, listening to mp3. I barely noticed that a guard was yelling at me telling me to move my legs down. I followed in an impulse and discreetly. While the guard was proceeding his way he passed by these 3 big caucasian guys (back packers, i supposed) who were actually sitting on the floor and he just went pretending that he didnt notice them. Another experience is in my workplace itself. I have to ask an IT staff to fix some problem with my desktop, a local HK guy came to my desk to fix the problem. As he was doing it he was murmuring telling me that "I belong to the race who works as domestic helpers in HK and I should not be asking much from him"..he was smiling though while saying this...

[wsuperfun]

Do you not think 'I was sitting with my legs crisscorssed on one of the benches in the lobby' is a poor manner and not respecting himself/herself and show considerations to others in the first place?

Originally Posted by Max

easy solutions here.....

was the security guard a slightly older man? if so then he would have found it easier to pick on you than 3 ...um, "big" caucasian guys. If so, call him over and yell into his ear "DO YOUR JOB, YOU WUSS!". I'm sure he won't bother you after that.

as for the IT guy, were you wearing heels? then right after he said what he said, you should have jabbed one of them deep into his foot, and "pretended" to apologize..., after all, that's not asking for 'much' now, is it?

Come on woman,...keep your chin up. This sort of stuff happens everyday in many other places. No reason for it to get you down...

[wsuperfun]

For the issue of having DH from the mainland, the government was worried about the possibility of the mainland DH involving in other business such as illegal immigration, prostitution etc. simply b/c they cannot be recognised from HK people. HK people would like to have mainland DH, as would the gov't, however there are realistic issues that need to be resolved. According to HK Yahoo news, the gov't is currently investigating this.

For the second issue, at the moment, we have around 55,000 people coming from mainland every year, i.e. half a million in ten years, for various reasons such as family reunion. This is just the rate that HK can take; and it is not a matter of taking more people, there are other issues we have to deal with, such as building houses, providing jobs, educations, medical care to these people so that they can be fully integrated into HK economy and contribute to the HK society. I won't be surprised to see another comment somewhere complaining there are too many mainlanders in HK.

Originally Posted by meemiathai

I think they discriminate their own people worse.

Mainland Chinese cannot come to HK to work as domestic helpers. Mainland Chinese married to HK citizens are not given ID cards up to until over 5 yrs so they can't live and work in HK.

I am not saying it is right or wrong but HK is too small a place to give away permanent ID cards too easily.

[wsuperfun]

There is a Chinese saying which approx means 'all jobs are of equal status'. Being a domestic helper is a second class citizen may not be the view of the American Korean woman. I am not being defensive, but she might just want to know if she is on another job.

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

Filipina DHs are treated as second class citizens....
buzz buzz WRONG!!!

Filipinas / Filipinos are perceived as second class citizens period

I have a filipina friend who is not a DH and applied for a temp job here. She was filling out an application together with an American Korean woman who just transferred to HK.

The American Korean woman saw the Filipina writing down her nationality on the form prompting her to ask later on whether she was a DH.

It is sad that someone coming from a supposedly first-world country would jump to that conclusion.

Should have told her to ask the Korean, if she worked in a launderette.

[HK_Newbie100]

I think KIA is right; racism is about the ignorance and stereotyping of the offender. In that sense, they themselves are victims of not knowing better or a conditioning / indoctrination that is beyond their control. That is their programming; it’s not really a personal thing; it’s a stimulus / response situation. When we realize this, we don’t attach blame on the offender and we don’t allow ourselves to be victimized. If there is no victim, there is no hurt.

Skyhook mentioned that we bring racism on ourselves by seeing ourselves as victims. That’s not quite absurd as it sounds. I wouldn’t say we bring it on ourselves but we may well perpetuate a situation if we see ourselves as victims. When we feel victimized, we feel hated and attacked which we then turn around and we ourselves then become the hater and the attacker, even if only in our minds. Defense is very often a form of attack. This is picked up on by the offender and so you become locked into and perpetuate the conflict, increasing your sense of victim hood, increasing your hatred and so the cycle goes on. Here, it does turn into a personal matter and more about a clash of personalities rather than racism itself, which was just a catalyst. On the other hand, we can mostly diffuse situations simply by not being offended in the first place and by shrugging or laughing things off. That way, we don’t add any negative energy or fuel to the situation, but instead just let it die away naturally. But that involves a mindset and personality that is disposed to responding that way and is not going to come naturally for many people. Note, this is not the same as doing nothing and just letting yourself be run over and bullied while you boil away inside. It's about a mindset and form of action that maintains your peace of mind and stress free life.

We can’t help being the target of racism but we can insulate ourselves from any hurt that would otherwise arise. As I’ve said in other threads, nobody can touch you unless you allow them to. Apart from physical pain which comes and goes quickly, all other hurt and pain is in the mind that only you have full access to and control over. So all this blaming of other people for your misery is unnecessary and futile and ultimately just rebounds on you. You become the victim of your own sense of victim hood.

[Star Gazer]

Originally Posted by wsuperfun

I am not being defensive, but she might just want to know if she is on another job.

I fail to see how being on another job equates to being a domestic helper

The American woman was of Korean descent and was told had a very American accent and was fluent in the American English language. So there isn't any language issues here.