[climber07]

Originally Posted by KnowItAll

I'm not talking about HK.
HK was positively civilized compared to what was done in places like India, Malaysia, Oman... pick a colony and you'll find stories of hundreds of thousands massacred.

How many brit kids are taught about the atrocities of countrymen.

Yeah or lets even look at most of today's "hot spots." We really start seeing the impact the colonization still has on today's world. Just look at the former East Africa Protectorate or the British Mandate of Palestine.

Drawing random lines in the sand often leads to very, very bad things.....

[KnowItAll]

http://markcurtis.wordpress.com/2007...-oman-1957-59/

Bring this into a very modern day context .. does it sound like something that might be happening in some part of the world right now?

‘If the Omani rebel movement were to succeed’, Britain’s political resident in Bahrain noted, and if ‘the territory where the oilfield lie were to be separated constitutionally from the coastal area near Muscat where the terminal is situated, the oil company might find itself in great difficulty’.

Atleast they were honest about it in those days.


And, to go back to the original post ..

Its a freakin animal .... get over it and eat it.

On a scale of who would I help if I had the ability to, kids and other defenseless humans would rank WAY .. WAY above animals....

[climber07]

This thread is becoming very culturally charged.....

Almost every culture has done horrible things. Their own perspective is always going to be different from outsiders looking in. It is always easy to judge someone else and not self-reflect and point a finger back at yourself. Whether we like it or not, each country writes their own history books and chooses to focus on events which typically show themselves in a good light. It is extremely difficult to have a neutral point of view of an event in which you were directly involved in. As Napoleon once said....."It is the winners that write history books."

Having said that, I know what it's like to live in a highly censored and controlling society and to have your mind brainwashed by insane ideals. Until I was 10 I lived in Soviet Union (and yes I drank the communistic cool aid). I was well on my way of being a young communist in the making....reading from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia that Alexander Mozhaysky invented the first airplane. Until I came to US in 1989 I've never even heard of the Wright Brothers.

My point is, every culture chooses to suppress things about the atrocities they were involved in (i.e. British with the Colonies, US with Vietnam, Soviets with the Gulags, WWII, Afghanistan, etc....).

The big difference is when the independent press reports stories of these atrocities or when people have the freedom of speech to talk about the truth, their government does not send police after them.

Denying the freedom of speech and twisting a story in the history books are slightly different things. And in late 20/early 21st century when events like the Tiananmen Square protests were so well documented by foreign journalists.....to continue to deny the bloodshed that occurred is almost silly and laughable on one end, and ridiculously sad on the other.

[climber07]

Originally Posted by KnowItAll

And, to go back to the original post ..

Its a freakin animal .... get over it and eat it.

On a scale of who would I help if I had the ability to, kids and other defenseless humans would rank WAY .. WAY above animals....

[sylvesterjay]

speaking of what the Brits did in India...

I love Russell Peters!!! "you think maybe they f#cked one or two of us?"

YouTube - Russell Peters - cultural names

[Krad]

Originally Posted by climber07

The big difference is when the independent press reports stories of these atrocities or when people have the freedom of speech to talk about the truth, their government does not send police after them.

Wanna bet? Go to the US, and try publishing photos of wounded soldiers and civilians. Or of Camp X-Ray. Or write a story about how bad it really is over there, and then you might change your mind. The US these days scares me more than anything China does.

[Mat]

Originally Posted by climber07

The big difference is when the independent press reports stories of these atrocities or when people have the freedom of speech to talk about the truth, their government does not send police after them.
.

http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=554

[Mr.Bing]

http://select.nytimes.com/2007/06/07...ristof.html?hp

A very timely NYTimes column about this exact discussion we're having, only it's more serious becuase it's about humans, not animals...

[beachball]

Originally Posted by Sleuth

No, the Brits weren't perfect and their behavior wasn't perfect but, all things being equal, would you rather live in England or the PRC?

Strange question, because if all things were equal we would presumably be indifferent.
Given that England and the PRC are in fact quite different, the answer is:

PRC, thank you very much.

[climber07]

Originally Posted by Krad

Wanna bet? Go to the US, and try publishing photos of wounded soldiers and civilians. Or of Camp X-Ray. Or write a story about how bad it really is over there, and then you might change your mind. The US these days scares me more than anything China does.

Are you kidding me? I just moved here from US 6 months ago. US Media can't get anough images of wounded soldiers and civilians to show on CNN. They blast those images all over the TV, Newspapers and Internet. U.S. Media are just rating whores.

That is why this so called "War on Terror" will never be won by US. Why? you ask. Because Americans don't have the guts to watch their soldiers die or to see civilian casualtites. "Embedded" reporters have no place on the front lines. Wars are not pretty, they are not meant to be telivized and yes, as horrible as it is, civilians die in wars (colleteral damage). The western world today does not have the resolve or the brains to trully fight a "war" on terror. They try to use conventional military tactics against and unconventional enemy (essentually like trying to kill bacteria with a hammer). This war should never have been fought like this....the only way you win a war against closed minded religious radicals is through carefully executed assasinations, intelligence comminity funding internal revolutions, and by reforming that culture to provide "modern" education and free throught.

The only way to win that war conventionally is either complete elimination of your enemy (Yes, I know I'm horrible), or by implementing Martial Law and doing house to house serach for weapons and neutralize any non-compient participant. The second option is way too draining on resources and the first option will certainly create a backlash of internal terrorism from already embedded sleeper agents of those regimes.