[Boris]

So having read the translation it appears that this article was published a month ago. In a publication read by, and printed for, " our hosts " in Hong Kong. They adhere to their culture, rules, laws and decrees which are not ours, or in our power to change. No matter how much we may feel we may like to.

It is proposed that " foreigners " subscribe to a petition to be presented to " our hosts " to tell them we don't agree. I say this because this posting is aimed at the expat community. Interesting concept.

I also must admit to not seeing this, in " our " eyes, what might seem as a distastefull act, being headlined in the local English written press. So it must be assumed that regional mainstream journalists have, after doing their homework and the editor concurring, decided that this was a non value event or at most not worthy of any high profile campaign. It has to be assumed therefore that allthough seemingly a powerfull article there is perhaps more to it that, if written, may dilute the event.

As brutal as the event may seem to some, as written, wouldn't it be a better use of our time and resources to get petitions raised upon events that really do not require the support of flowery language and a multitude of un named sources.

These might be
1) The cruelty of using a 12 year old boy to carry out a human beheading , instead of the universal accepted terrorist code of using adults to do it.
2) The cruelty of a crazed student gunning down over 30 innocent fellows whilst the NRA and politicians up for election go round saying it would have been better for everyone to go around with a .38 strapped to their hip and a pump action in the boot of everyones car.
3) The recent release of religous vigilanties in Iran who may go around their country picking up anyone they please. On what is to us unbelievers, no sane reason what so ever and brutally execute them by truelly inhumane means . QUOTE " we drowned them by placing them in a pool of water and sat on their chests " UNQUOTE. Or more traditionally stoning them. OR a one man religious court finding a 14 yr old girl had acted in a tasteless manner and imediately hanged her from one of the now infamous mobile crane gallows where you choke slowly whilst others cheer.

I would sign up to that.

I don't deny that some things may appear to be brutal to some relating to animals that are bred to support the majorities ( ourselves and our hosts ) food chain, whether is put on the plate afterwards or not. But if "our host" haven't taken it up then rather than make up some meaningless document they would be better served to take the next plane out of here to live in a part of the world where they feel the society in which they daily live is more suited to them.

Even if you may have a permanant ID , have lived here for eons, married locals or have extensive interests. Those to whom this being asked of are expats and guests and it is not our place to tell " our hosts " what they may do or how they may do it. Period.

Go try it in the countries where we are inhumane to our own kind if you truelly feel that it may do some good. When thats achieved we can move on to this stuff.

[beachball]

Humans are carnivores, it is in the physiological make-up. We are also creatures endowed with free will and with surprising (sometimes scary) ingenuity, enabling certain people to chose not to eat certain varieties of food, like (certain kinds of) meat. The rest of us will continue to consume other animals, like nature/God/[insert other higher power of your preference] intended us to. As a result million so pig/cattle/lamb/snakes/chickens/etc. get killed everyday - some in a more humane way than others, but the death of most of them is arguably far less gruesome than being torn to shreds by other predators. Given this and the small number (40,000) of pigs in questions, I don’t really see why I (or anybody else for that matter) should care.
As was noted, for more pressing problems in the world to be dealt with and disturbing issues to be addressed: How about caring for all the people suffering before we concern ourselves with a few pigs…

[Vrindavan]

>> but the death of most of them is arguably far less gruesome than being torn to shreds by other predators.


however, i have read something opposite of it. That is animals killed by predators died quick and fast that minimize pain and suffering

[lowlight]

Originally Posted by Boris

So having read the translation it appears that this article was published a month ago. In a publication read by, and printed for, " our hosts " in Hong Kong. They adhere to their culture, rules, laws and decrees which are not ours, or in our power to change. No matter how much we may feel we may like to.

It is proposed that " foreigners " subscribe to a petition to be presented to " our hosts " to tell them we don't agree. I say this because this posting is aimed at the expat community. Interesting concept.

I also must admit to not seeing this, in " our " eyes, what might seem as a distastefull act, being headlined in the local English written press. So it must be assumed that regional mainstream journalists have, after doing their homework and the editor concurring, decided that this was a non value event or at most not worthy of any high profile campaign. It has to be assumed therefore that allthough seemingly a powerfull article there is perhaps more to it that, if written, may dilute the event.

As brutal as the event may seem to some, as written, wouldn't it be a better use of our time and resources to get petitions raised upon events that really do not require the support of flowery language and a multitude of un named sources.

These might be
1) The cruelty of using a 12 year old boy to carry out a human beheading , instead of the universal accepted terrorist code of using adults to do it.
2) The cruelty of a crazed student gunning down over 30 innocent fellows whilst the NRA and politicians up for election go round saying it would have been better for everyone to go around with a .38 strapped to their hip and a pump action in the boot of everyones car.
3) The recent release of religous vigilanties in Iran who may go around their country picking up anyone they please. On what is to us unbelievers, no sane reason what so ever and brutally execute them by truelly inhumane means . QUOTE " we drowned them by placing them in a pool of water and sat on their chests " UNQUOTE. Or more traditionally stoning them. OR a one man religious court finding a 14 yr old girl had acted in a tasteless manner and imediately hanged her from one of the now infamous mobile crane gallows where you choke slowly whilst others cheer.

I would sign up to that.

I don't deny that some things may appear to be brutal to some relating to animals that are bred to support the majorities ( ourselves and our hosts ) food chain, whether is put on the plate afterwards or not. But if "our host" haven't taken it up then rather than make up some meaningless document they would be better served to take the next plane out of here to live in a part of the world where they feel the society in which they daily live is more suited to them.

Even if you may have a permanant ID , have lived here for eons, married locals or have extensive interests. Those to whom this being asked of are expats and guests and it is not our place to tell " our hosts " what they may do or how they may do it. Period.

Go try it in the countries where we are inhumane to our own kind if you truelly feel that it may do some good. When thats achieved we can move on to this stuff.

Now that's a 5-star post right there

Vrindavan: you need to watch more Discovery Channel

[PDLM]

Originally Posted by Boris

Even if you may have a permanant ID , have lived here for eons, married locals or have extensive interests. Those to whom this being asked of are expats and guests and it is not our place to tell " our hosts " what they may do or how they may do it. Period.

I'm confused here. Are you saying that as a Permanent Resident in Hong Kong I should not exercise my right to vote? What about my children if they are born and live here all their lives? Are you arguing that only the indigenous people's of a place can ever have any say in how it runs? That isn't going to work too well in North America, Australia, or a few other places...

[Stuckup_not]

Even thought I am vegetarian, I accept meat eating.

No one is addressing the basic questions......why could the pigs not be donated to a slaughter house and the meat given to various charity organizations as fresh frozen meat? Why did the pigs die in vein.

Someone also asked, why do they keep breeding instead of neutering the pigs or separating the males from the females.

This is not about how you like your steak cooked.

[beachball]

Originally Posted by Vrindavan

>> but the death of most of them is arguably far less gruesome than being torn to shreds by other predators.


however, i have read something opposite of it. That is animals killed by predators died quick and fast that minimize pain and suffering

Yeah right! Animals in the wild do not die peacefully in their sleep or while surrounded by their friends and relatives and under painkillers...
Suggest you watch some documentaries featuring kills of/by animals in the wild. And how about old or injured animals that are too debilitated to continue hunting (or otherwise securing) their feed? They slowly and painfully starve to death - with every animal around them knowing what is coming and parasites following them around to feed on the carcass (well documented examples abound, e.g., lions with porcupine spines in their front legs/paws being unable to run and hunt, surrounded by hyenas waiting for the lion to become too weak to defend itself and then tear it apart alive - makes a well-placed bullet sound like the ultimate way to go!).

[Vrindavan]

>> why could the pigs not be donated to a slaughter house and the meat given to various charity organizations as fresh frozen meat? Why did the pigs die in vein.


i have heard that the meat from such pigs are not good/tasty, it is a waste of money to slaughter them in slaughter houses(need to pay money) and cannot sell good prices in the meat market

you know, people not just want to eat meat, they want to eat (more tasty?) meat.

Thus they have to die in a way that cost the people least money

their destiny is based on their
negative economic value

[freeier]

.. deleted

[Boris]

To PDLM ( Please understand in a nice way ! )
The issue is not about voting. Petitions are not voting. They are a democratic way of expressing an opinion to a fully elected government in the hope of influencing policy. Something that most might say is not the system we recognise here. One country two systems maybe, BUT one country non the less and the legislature to match.

The thread is about a specific issue sanctioned by local legislation, and / or at least accepted by , in some way , indiginous local people. I don't read the local Chinese language papers and my wife ( who does ) says she can't remember anything about it so I can't comment on whether the same people, who would like us ( Expats ) to raise a stink. Have invested in full page adds in the local language main publications or got people on the streets about this.

I live in New Territories North, where this " outrage " took place. No burning cars, broken windows and chanting crowds here. Maybe there are in Central, outside LV and Armani, but not here amongst those whom you may think should express an opinion. N.O.M.D.S. after all.

That is happening, in a much more pleasant way, for universal sufferage (To go off thread on the matter of voting and rights of indigenous people) to give ALL the right to vote and is universally seen as an important issue. Perhaps in the future EVERYONE may have a right to vote on issues such as animal welfare and the rights of pigs. The people will be those so entitled and laws made, in the vast majority, by persons with an indiginous heritage and rightly so.

When it comes to the rights of indigenous people I am sure your not saying that " White is right ". I am sure any American Indian, Aborigine, Maori, Inca, Aztec and more locally anyone who is Non Han ( AKA Tibetian or Urgar ) might like to engage on a comprehensive discussion about loss of rights, culture and interferance for the alteration of traditional understanding by incomers, with or without rights of permanent residence. Or family traditions based on living outside of this community. Whether born here or not.

My point was that there are more important things relating to our own particular " Expat " heritiges. Nothing more.