[sylvesterjay]

While my sympathies and I'm sure those of every member of this site go out to the families of the victims, there are a number of disturbing issues surrounding this event that should be discussed. I'm especially interested to hear the opinions of our American members and their take on the US 'gun' culture and their 2nd amendment rights.

A man who was remanded by court order into a mental health care facility in 2005 and was declared a danger to himself was sold a pistol in March 2007 after a background check failed to pick up on this fact and cleared him. Additionally, Virginia law states you can't buy more than 1 pistol in 30 days, so this shooter cooly and calculatingly waited the required time then purchased a second weapon just a few days before his shooting spree.

So it begs the questions:

1) whats wrong with US gun laws? whats the point in background checks if they don't check and waiting periods that just force a madman to wait 1 month?


2) why don't they tighten existing laws instead of legislating newer equally lax ones that will be ignored or gotten around just as easily?

3) why are Americans so adamant about the 2nd amendment and arming themselves, with assault weapons no less?

4) why are these ardent supporters claiming that conceal and carry laws could have prevented this massacre, as other armed students could have shot back? Do these people not see the irony? Is there idea of a civilized society one in which the entire populace is armed? Do they not realize if the criminals weren't armed, and the bad guys got their guns in the first place because of a tolerant US gun culture, they wouldn't need to have 50 guns to feel safe? They claim that criminals ignore the laws anyway so they need their guns to protect themselves. Here's a thought...take the guns away from the criminals, or better yet, you shouldn't have created the environment that allowed them easy access to guns in the first place! The international community is unanimous in its condemnation of US gun culture and laws in helping to create this situation, but these nutters are saying more guns are the answer!

5) is the media irresponsible in its decision to broadcast the tape the killer sent, thereby giving him the exposure he so craved, inspiring other wannabe's to get the attention they also crave and by taking the focus away from the victims and giving it to the madman that took their lives? I know the media is a business and they make money from big stories, but where is their moral compass to stop and say hey maybe we shouldn't show this!? maybe the right thing to do is not air this, to maybe make less money because we didn't and to not give this guy the platform he wanted.

[climber07]

I'm in Tokyo right now on a business trip but I will reply to your questions in greater detail as soon as I'm back in Hong Kong.

I will say this, I'm an American, I support the 2nd Amendment Right. Having said that:

1> The current legal "gun control" system is faulty is have failed not only the victims in this case but all the citizens of the country. Its in need of MAJOR revisions.

2> It is simply impossible to collect all exisitng guns in U.S., and the criminal element can always buy weapons. Apparently....even a mayor of Nagasaki can get gunned down on a busy Tokyo street without any problems.

3> U.S. media are "money & rating" whores and have a moral set of a street crack dealer.

[discobay]

It seems to me that schools should reconsider whether main doors should be changed from the current fire exit type with push bars. In a number of similar cases the culprits have succeeded in delaying response action by chaining the doors shut.

[siumai]

You can never collect all of the guns, but it would help a lot if you collect most of them, gun buy-back schemes and really strict controls for selling guns have proved to work to reduce crime.

The problem in U.S. is that the politicians can be bribed so easily, and I guess many of the guns are still manufactured in U.S. or by U.S. companies that are happy with this huge market for guns.

[Mr.Bing]

Originally Posted by sylvesterjay

While my sympathies and I'm sure those of every member of this site go out to the families of the victims, there are a number of disturbing issues surrounding this event that should be discussed. I'm especially interested to hear the opinions of our American members and their take on the US 'gun' culture and their 2nd amendment rights.

A man who was remanded by court order into a mental health care facility in 2005 and was declared a danger to himself was sold a pistol in March 2007 after a background check failed to pick up on this fact and cleared him. Additionally, Virginia law states you can't buy more than 1 pistol in 30 days, so this shooter cooly and calculatingly waited the required time then purchased a second weapon just a few days before his shooting spree.

So it begs the questions:

1) whats wrong with US gun laws? whats the point in background checks if they don't check and waiting periods that just force a madman to wait 1 month?


2) why don't they tighten existing laws instead of legislating newer equally lax ones that will be ignored or gotten around just as easily?

3) why are Americans so adamant about the 2nd amendment and arming themselves, with assault weapons no less?

4) why are these ardent supporters claiming that conceal and carry laws could have prevented this massacre, as other armed students could have shot back? Do these people not see the irony? Is there idea of a civilized society one in which the entire populace is armed? Do they not realize if the criminals weren't armed, and the bad guys got their guns in the first place because of a tolerant US gun culture, they wouldn't need to have 50 guns to feel safe? They claim that criminals ignore the laws anyway so they need their guns to protect themselves. Here's a thought...take the guns away from the criminals, or better yet, you shouldn't have created the environment that allowed them easy access to guns in the first place! The international community is unanimous in its condemnation of US gun culture and laws in helping to create this situation, but these nutters are saying more guns are the answer!

5) is the media irresponsible in its decision to broadcast the tape the killer sent, thereby giving him the exposure he so craved, inspiring other wannabe's to get the attention they also crave and by taking the focus away from the victims and giving it to the madman that took their lives? I know the media is a business and they make money from big stories, but where is their moral compass to stop and say hey maybe we shouldn't show this!? maybe the right thing to do is not air this, to maybe make less money because we didn't and to not give this guy the platform he wanted.

1) this article answers your questions on how he cleared a background check.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/19/us...ns.html?ref=us

2) it's called the powerful and rich gun lobby in congress and the NRA

3) not all americans are as zealous as the NRA red state folks about the 2nd amendment, which is bent and twisted to suit their political purposes...they've done such a good job in making people forget that the 2nd amendment was written in the historical context of a lawful militia to defend one's land from the invading British with one shot muskets, not to allow people to massacre other people with assault weapons. it's a gun culture that extends a couple hundred years that's unlikely to go anywhere. the need to "protect/defend oneself's home turf" is imbended in the american psyche.

4) these are the same nutters that after 9/11 went and hoarded guns citing "self defense against terrorists" -yeah, like that's going to stop a plane being flown into a building... remember you're overestimating the average intelligence and cognitive reasoning ability of a red state inhabitant. also remember (as an american i can say this) that american culture is different from other places- it's not a culture where people have a sense of shared sacrifice (just look at how the rest of the US is livin it up while a small disadvantaged minority is sent to fight in iraq) so no one is going to be willing to give up their own right to bear arms just because someone else in another state died of gunfire. it's a culture of instant gratification and short sightedness, where politicians pander to the masses at the lowest common denominator regardless of the benefit to society, just to get a few votes...

just being a devils advocate here, the majority of gun owners in the us are law abiding citizens who will argue why they should give up guns when they are responsible about theirs. i know women who have conceal and carry permits for self defense purposes because of past assaults and know plenty of people who have rifles cuz they love deer hunting. and if you're responsible about it, why not? remember the guys who killed those people was psycho... the real question is why society is creating so many disaffected maladjusted youth with such rage in them...

5) the media, as idiotic and anti-intellectual as it is, has every right to broadcast it. people can choose if they want to watch or read it. the more people read and react to it, the more the media will keep feeding them...

and lastly have you seen Bowling for Columbine? raises a lot of the issues you're bringing up- an interesting film.

[freeier]

the mayor of nagasaki was gunned down by a yakusa. that's quite alot different. its a calculated assassination.

the incidence in the states its crazy.
its a 20+ young guy that did something impulsive.. that' has to be stopped one way or another

[sylvesterjay]

impulsive? i think you are mistaken sir, this quite blatantly took a lot of planning and forethought

[discobay]

Apparently there is a thirty-day wait period after buying a gun. He had two.

[climber07]

Originally Posted by siumai

The problem in U.S. is that the politicians can be bribed so easily.

You're right! That never happens in Asia or anywhere else in the world.

C'mon it take a special type of scum to be a politician. The idealists only survive one term and then get replaced by those who can be bought.....welcome to the real world, now lets gets back to the program.

American concept of Freedom has always dependent on the idea of people being able to protect their homes and their families. And no US politician has the right to take those freedoms away (although they are certainly trying hard to do so).

Having said that, the laws need to require basic IQ tests, psychological tests, mandatory weapon safety class and and extensive background check (with references) and possibly a 6 month waiting period....as a good start.

[freeier]

impulsive after an event.
if that guy kills after 1-2 years planning and try not to get caught, that's cold blooded.

a person that goes in to kill and sucide, that's impulsive.