[GreenPt]

Hi everyone,

I've run into a problem and hope you can give me some advise as to what to do next... I was visiting Hong Kong and stayed for 1 month in Harmony Mansion. Rent was fully paid, moved out per Tenancy Agreement, left the apartment in clean condition. Besides the rent, I paid HK$11,700 for Security Deposit, plus another $1,500 for Electricity Deposit. (All receipts received.)

The Tenancy Agreement stated that deposits would be refunded within 30 days. However it has been 40 days and I've not received anything. So I've been calling and emailing the Landlord's representative, Man Hing Hong Property Management via email and phone, asking for my refund.

When I asked about the exact date and amount for the refund of deposits, I received vague email replies like "it's being processed and will be done soon", or, "I don't know about the refund.. it's the Accounts dept that's in charge". Or phone calls were not returned and emails not replied. I've rented apts in many cities and this is the first time the landlord/ rep does this - withholding money that does not belong to them (they know that I am not in HK currently).

Besides the Small Claims Tribunal, what do you think about hiring an attorney to ask for 2 or 3x the deposit? This dilly-dallying is just plain wrong! Surely HK's legal system protects the tenant/ visitor?

[ontheroad]

Before you hire an attorney and lodge a claim, and since you can't go there in person, why not try to send a friend, preferably a male friend that's tall and intimidating! Someone who they'll have to give a straight answer to. Also maybe start alluding in your email that your lawyer has recommended that you call the police, and tell them you will do so if you don't have their check by the end of the week. Give them some strong ultimatums.

[KnowItAll]

Not sure if you can technically threaten them with a winding up petition, since they owe you money.

http://www.hkclic.org/en/topics/bank...ation/qb.shtml

Perhaps just a threat worded correctly might work as a demand as per the winding up procedure might work?

http://www.hkclic.org/en/topics/bank...ation/q4.shtml

Unlike the US, HK law is based around the UK system .. which is a PAIN in the ARSE when it comes to suing for your rights, as you'll end up spending more than what it is worth, unless you have a pro-bono solicitor and barrister working for you (fat chance of that happening when they have to pay for the $200 single malts).

[GreenPt]

I am very disappointed as I've always believed that Hong Kong has laws to protect people. That's what makes Hong Kong attractive and its businesses thrive. In this case we're not talking about some hole-in-the-wall shop, but an established substantial company.

In good faith I handed over the security & electricity deposits. And now this.

If I have to be in Hong Kong, I don't mind flying there. In that case, the expenses would be charged to them.

[KnowItAll]

So, you fell for all the hype created by the marketing machine call the Govt. The quicker you loose the indignation the higher the chances that you can approach this without emotion.

I'd also recommend sending a letter to the SCMP.. they have a consumer column which helps negotiate / bring to light abusive cases like this.

Can someone dig up the name of the columist that does the column I'm thinking about?

[GreenPt]

Thank you, ontheroad and KnowItAll. I will look into the links. What makes my blood boil is the way the Leasing Dept says it's the Accounts Dept etc. So to get back security deposit we are supposed to also understand the company's internal operations??!

[GreenPt]

KnowItAll,

SCMP - That is a GREAT suggestion!

[Max Jian]

GreenPt,

Did you rent the Harmony Mansion via a real estate agent? May be you can ask the agent to assist you if s/he was involved in the tenancy agreement signing. At least having another party involved can put some pressure to the landlord.

If you hire an attorney, the initial letter issued by the lawyer usually cost HK$1,500-.

[sarpesius]

I don't have a solution for the OP's problem.

This happens all the time in the USA. Landlords keep renters' deposits because going to small claims court is often difficult for renters due to work or ignorance of the legal process.

Now that I see this goes in HK too, I have a question:

Is it possible to arrange with a serviced-apartment company just to pay month to month in advance for the time one occupies the apartment, and to settle up any bills when you leave?

If this cannot be done, just staying in a hotel seem preferable.

[GreenPt]

Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions. Really appreciate it!

Thought I'll post an update ...

I FINALLY got the deposits back - about 16 days late. This was after I made countless phone calls, left unreturned messages, wrote many emails.

In my correspondences I didn't make any threats, I just clearly stated the EXACT number of days overdue. Also I suggested that I would definitely seek out other methods of collection if they failed to return the money.

After this whole incident, my general impression was that it wasn't their intention not to return the money. Rather, something to do with their internal organisation or administration. Still, this should never have happened. After all it's Hong Kong. It gave me a very bad impression. Imagine you're abroad, not knowing what's going on, and the hassle and worry.


Max Jian:
No, I didn't rent through a real estate agent. It was direct through the landlord's representative.


sarpesius:

No, this shouldn't happen all the time, because then no one would dare pay a deposit! I thought in the US landlords don't want to hold the deposit longer lest they be sued!

The contract I had was totally official with stamps from both the landlord and the government (stamp duty paid), and it clearly stated that the deposit was to be returned WITHIN 30 days. The experience showed that tenancy agreements in HK don't mean much and can be disregarded, perhaps?


Some serviced apts don't take deposits (eg. Bauhinia), but most do. For the ones that don't, they take an imprint of your credit card in lieu.

In my case, I paid 1 month plus electricity deposits... the idea is that the total amt minus electricity consumed will be returned. Most serviced apts do ask for deposits (1 mth or more).

The difficult part was that I was only travelling in HK. After I left and didn't receive deposit, I had to chase after them and wasn't sure if it would be returned at all! It occurred to me that if I had to end up in Small Claims Tribunal, I would charge to them the expense of flying there + hotel accommodation.

So... the conclusion. Next time I travel to HK and have to rent a serviced apt, I'd make sure to rent one that doesn't ask for security deposit.



If this were to happen to anyone the following steps may be good to take:

- HK Small Claims Tribunal: application/ paperwork/ process is straightforward... all you need is a HK address, make sure you keep and take all documents/ evidence (tenancy agreement, contract, rent invoices, good to take photographs on move-out, etc). Just need to wait for them to set a date for the hearing.

- SMCP as suggested by KIA... section is 'Take Action!' Write to them.

- file police report

- file with Better Business Bureau

- file with Buildings Authority

- last resort, hire an attorney (may be worth it depending on their fees and the deposit amt)

- post and share the experience!