[Khema]

thanks! I found hard sleepers OK too, but may be not for over 50 hrs
i get reports of people boarding train at Guangzhou to Lhasa without permit but they are all Asian/Chinese looking... yet to hear a westerner going that way

for anyone's benefit, I just got info that it is possible to book Guangzhou-Lhasa train ticket in Hong Kong, at the China Railway Office in Hung Hom, for up to 1 month in advance but for a fee of HKG100. no info on permits however, as the people who booked tickets this way were all Hong Kong Chinese

[RichardLangford]

All this information is very helpful to me as I plan to take the GZ - Lhasa train this September.

One correction - the train runs on alternate days, not daily.

In both Guangzhou and Shenzhen stations there is an electronic sign stipulatng that foreigners cannot be sold tickets for this train without a permit. But I tried 2 travel agents in Shenzhen last week and both were ready to sell me a ticket, they were clearly ignorant of the permit rule.

I was going to try and just get on this train without a TTP and see what happens, as I had thought it was impossible to get a TTP in this part of China. But the contacts above might be just what I need, I'd rather have a permit if possible.

I'd really like to hear from any Caucasian who took this train. I'd like to know what checks he had.

[texasaxel]

Richard, I am going to take the train from Xining to Lhasa on Monday but will meet an agent from my travel agent in Xining to obtain my train tickets and travel permit. I went through a Lhasa-based travel agency to arrange everything and can give you feedback how it went after I come back.

In preparation, I spent a lot of time in travel forums specializing in Tibet travel and this permit issue comes up over and over again. I suppose this is because not every Western tourist is asked for a proof of permit when buying the ticket or boarding the train, which explains perhaps why there is so much discussion about this in those forums. The question to ask yourself is if the permit issue is really worth it to potentially mess up your trip. I'd play it safe and get a permit, which means NOT getting your train ticket through a dodgy agent, who ignores the official rules.

[Misty]

We are traveling to Tibet in September with http://www.august-moon-travel.com.hk/
They have been very efficient and helpful so far. It’s a private tour for husband and myself with air travel, hotels, English tour guide, 4wd travel and permit included in the price. We’ve even been able to upgrade flights with them it’s not cheap I guess but cover everything we want with the security of it all being arranged for us.

[RichardLangford]

My big plan is to go overland from HK to Kathmandu and then fly back, the whole trip taking 20 days. But this can only be done comfortably if I can take the GZ - Lhasa train without any problems.

Unfortunately a Tibet permit seems to take a few days to arrange, and this could mean getting off the train and wasting considerable time in Xining or Xian. But I'd still much rather have a permit. I will email the Xian and Xining places later and ask if they can help me with a quick permit.

I've looked forward to making this trip, but I must admit I'm becoming frustrated by all this and am now wondering about going elsewhere this September.

[mckpoon]

Originally Posted by RichardLangford

Unfortunately a Tibet permit seems to take a few days to arrange, and this could mean getting off the train and wasting considerable time in Xining or Xian. But I'd still much rather have a permit. I will email the Xian and Xining places later and ask if they can help me with a quick permit.

i believe you could get your permit arranged here in HK or GZ. i left the contact information for the Tibetan Travel Bureau on #7... here it is again:
ph. 28383391
fax. 34750280
Times Tower
37/F, 393 Jaffe Rd
although the operation has moved to gz, if you call up the number, the fellow says he can take care of it by faxing your information. or just go to gz.

secondly, i went the same as your plans are [overland to KTM]... though it's a bit of ways away, please let me know how yours went about!

Good luck!

[texasaxel]

I arrived in Lhasa by train from Xining two days ago. Journey was amazing, weather in Lhasa is gorgeous and much warmer than expected - T-shirts only so far.
There is no humidity at all !!! While in HK these days I sweat buckets during any type of physical activity, I climbed up the hundreds of steps to the Potala Palace yesterday in 25C sunshine and not a drop of sweat! Instead, lots of moisturiser and sunscreen are a must as is lots of water; I woke up twice last night because I needed to drink some water. No problems with the altitude though, Im taking 125mg Diamox (half a pill) twice daily plus a Chinese supplement. My girlfriend, however, has a bad cold since boarding the flight in Guangzhou with wet hair on Monday. By the way, no one checked my TTB permit and none of the other Westerners in the train were checked either. Everyone is interested in the China visa though. Need to show it at check-in to the hostel and even at the Potala.

Internet connection to this site is very slow due to the graphics so I probably won't post again until my return to HK. We will leave for the 'countryside' tomorrow and expect internet to be a rarity out there.

[texasaxel]

I am back from Tibet! Here are some of the answers to questions posted earlier.

Permits
TTP (required by non-Chinese nationals to enter Xizang, the Tibet Autonomous Region): received mine along with train ticket in Xining; was never asked to show it during the train journey but I was requested to show it at check-in into my hotel (Shandong) in Shigatse and at the police check point outside New Tingri (Baiba Township) on the way to Everest Base Camp (EBC)
ATP(required by non-Chinese nationals to visit areas more than a day trip away from Lhasa): our driver obtained mine in Shigatse and was required to show it to obtain the entry-ticket to the Mt Qololangma (e.g. Everest) National National Protection Area and again alongside the TTP at the above mentioned police check point. TTP had to be shown to obtain the ATP.

Weather Warmer than expected; very good sun protection is required - UV factor 30 was clearly insufficient; I am suffering from severe sunburn on my nose from my time at Everest Base Camp (waiting for the clouds to disappear around the peak). Two cold nights: EBC and Namtso Lake. I carried a sleeping bag but this turned out to be unnecessary - we noticed that the bedsheets are not washed each day in the remoter areas so if you're picky about that, bring a sleeping bag or buy one in the Lhasa.

Personal Hygiene I encountered some really disgusting toilets in my travels (rural India, Yunnan/China, trains in Europe) but some of what we saw in Tibet must surely rank among the world's worst. Occassionally we encountered people relieving themselves next to a publside was too unbearable. I could go on about other examples but in the interest of taste, I stop here. Drop me a PM if you need to know more. Obviously bringing your own TP / wet wipes is a must; paper was virtually never available in public toilets. The showers we encountered often had very low pressure and limited warm water but we were actually positively surprised that warm water was so frequently available compared to some of my other travels.

Annoyances Aggressive begging is quite a nuisance and some people responded quite rudely when they didn't receive enough / anything. Fortunately, I don't speak Mandarin but my gf was offended by their rudeness on quite a few occassions. Also, we encountered that by giving some money to one person, we became a 'target' and were quickly surrounded by more people asking for money (no different from other places like India) and quite often ran out of change (tip: monestaries are a great place to exchange money to jiao bills, by the way) Obviously it is a personal choice on how to respond in such situations. We prefer giving money for entrepreneurial activities (kids selling fossils, rocks, postcards or bracelets etc.) to straight hand-outs but everyone probably has their own opinion.

Attractions Closed / Under Construction
The road from Yamdrok Lake to Gyantse is closed for repairs, which means that most tours do not visit Gyantse at this time. The Yamdrok Lake viewpoint on top of Khamba La (Pass) is thus, a dead-end - all vehicles return to the Friendship Highway.
Sakya monestary is undergoing serious renovation work and most chapels and abbott chambers are closed; light in the remaining chapels is quite poor. The architecture of the place is interesting but one should decide for themselves if a visit is worth the detour and 45RMB entry-fee.

Communication
English is very rarely spoken and of poor quality. Unless you travel with someone, who speaks Chinese, communication will be very difficult. Remember to bring a guidebook that lists place names in Chinese characters as the Tibetan names are often not understood by drivers (most drivers (taxi, bus, 4WD) are Chinese).

PM me for further questions or post them in this thread.
Overall, the trip was great and I highly recommend it. A significant proportion of the tourists come from Hong Kong these days: we stayed in the Phuntsok Khasang hostel in Lhasa where travellers can write comments about their travel experiences on the hallway walls and numerous recent (June) comments came from Hong Kong people.

[texasaxel]

In response to some of the PMs I received on this topic, some more info about the train to Tibet.

There are two services: Beijing - Lhasa and Chongqing - Lhasa. We boarded in Xining and our travel agent obtained soft sleeper tickets for us on the second service, which leaves Xining about four hours earlier than the ex-Beijing train and arrived Lhasa after appr 24 hours at 17:30.

The soft-sleeper car we we were in was full of Western tourists; one American and one Austrian group. The hard sleepers have six beds instead of four and we saw no Westerners in those compartments when we walked by. There is no place to store luggage other than in the compartments themselves. I don't know how it is done in the hard sleepers because we barely fit everything into our soft sleepers. During the day, the only seating is in the foldable seats in the aisle or in the beds; which is okay in the soft sleepers assuming a couple travelling together shares upper and lower berth. Sitting on upper bed is not possible ...

Toilets: soft sleeper had both Western-style and Chinese-style toilets and they were kept relatively clean throughout the journey.

Dining car: Great for MSG lovers! We brought our own snacks and found the dining car service to be quite surly and slow. Glad we did not have to rely on their food for survival. Trolleys with snacks and drinks are also available.

That's all for now. Let me know if you have further questions.

[xue39]

Sure, you should go. It's nice place. I've been there last year for a month and can share advice.

(1) You don't have to book trip in advance, contrary to what the agent will say. You may if you want, but getting things on the spot saves you money and makes new friends.

(2) Train goes to Tibet from Beijing (48 hours), Guangzhou (58 hours) and some other cities. It's cheap, fast and fun. When you go to the station you should already have your Tibet permit (any agency, ?$50?

(3) All of Tibet and especially Lhasa are undergoing influx of Chinese settlers. Expect to find supermarkets, banks and Chinese language unless you're ready to venture into countryside.

(4) Hostels in Lhasa are clean and good and you can easily book trips to various places from Lhasa. My fav is jeep to Mt.Everest. Look for bulletin boards in hostels - check several of the best ones - for trips and friends.

(5) Flights to Lhasa go through Bejing anyway so that's not so time-effective as it seems.

(6) If you're into adventure, crossing Nepal board (hitchhiking or car hire possible, visa on the spot) will bring you into beautiful, English-speaking country with many tourist destinations and flights to anywhere.

Catch me in HK for more advice (PM).