[youngjediboy]

I don't know how many cases there are of these... but I know back in California most of the ABCs I know barely can speak and listen to Cantonese or Mandarin let alone read or write Chinese...

I can say that I speak a moderate amount of Cantonese... around a kid's level. I can order food, ask directions, make basic conversations, etc... just no discussion about politics or religion as I won't know what the hell you're talking about. With Mandarin I took a couple classes back home and don't remember jack... so I'm useless there.

As for reading and writing Chinese, I know very very VERY basic words: numbers, big, small, some animal/food characters. It's plain pathetic.



Back home I've never had the urge to learn Chinese as EVERYTHING is in English and I've been comfortable. Now that I'm here where Chinese is so pivotal, I realize what an idiot I was for not wanting to learn while I had the resources available to me.

Now I want to make it up. Anyone on the same boat and would like to learn together, take classes, give candy to kids who are willing to teach us... anything?

I wonder if there are any classes that cater to foreign born Chinese people who already know the bare basics of the language and culture. I know there are plenty of classes catered to non-Chinese, but we could probably skip the early levels.

[HKChigger]

I am sure even non-Chinese get past basic level. Most schools that teach Chinese/Cantonese should have different levels. Say maybe 1-10, one being beginner and 10 being almost fluent.

[HK_Newbie100]

Of those born and raised overseas, which therefore does not include those with at least some formal eduction in HK, China or Taiwan, I'd guess at 95%+ are in the same boat as you. In UK I don't know any Chinese like me who read and write anything meaningful over and above what they learned in Chinese Sunday School classes. So you're definitely not alone mate.

I'm afraid if you really wanted to make up for lost ground, there's no getting away from the fact it's going to be a hard slog over many years. That's why you don't see many non Chinese or ABCs, BBCs and so on literate in Chinese. It's just too damn difficult. I think they should Romanize the writing. Mainland PinYin would be a perfectly sufficient form of communication. I've spent over 10 years (on and off) learning to read and write and still don't classify myself as competent. Ok, it's because I'm a bit dull, but still. Along with Japanese, the worst written language system in the world.

[Canadian Steve]

I think learning mandarin now is much more important in this part of the world. That's my 2 cents

[bascom]

I'm not an _BC, but I'm half Chinese and in exactly the same situation of being able to speak kiddie-level Cantonese, some Mandarin and being essentially illiterate.

I've taken Mandarin courses on and off and seen my writing ability improve and decline again. I don't think that taking classes or forming a group will be of much help. All that's needed is the discipline to park yourself somewhere and learn 5-10 characters a day. At this stage, you might as well just focus on simplified characters. I use several books published by Beijing Language & Culture University. There are also PDA programs that allow you to practice while on the go.

Good luck!

[Jawni Hingh]

I'm an ABC moving to HK in a month or two. I can say that it's definitely the norm here for Chinese-Americans to be illiterate in Chinese. I'm lucky to be in NYC where there is a big Chinese community and resources to learn Chinese, so there are options for those who have an interest and the willingness to learn. But even with this access, my ability to speak, read, and write -- at only an intermediate level, really -- was primarily due to 1) my parents not speaking English and communicating with me exclusively in Cantonese at home; 2) going to "Chinese Sunday School" for many years when I was younger; 3) continuing Chinese-language studies in college and now as an adult. Most ABCs weren't/chose not to be in these same circumstances so it's very hard for them to learn at this point.

I disagree with the notion though that it CAN'T be learned, especially if you already have a base and can communicate at least on a kiddie level; this is especially true too because you are physically in HK so you are forced to pick it up. I've been taking once-a-week Mandarin classes for almost a year now, and supplement it with many great resources online: ChinesePod.com is my favorite for lessons in podcast form and ZhongWen.com is fantastic as a resource for vocabulary. It definitely requires some discipline and study time if you want to be somewhat proficient. All of these free resources coupled with some formal Chinese lessons in HK to help you stay on track and I think you'll do fine in time!

[youngjediboy]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the great tips! I agree, Mandarin is getting much more important and I'll really need to pick that up.

And Jawni, thanks for those links. I didn't know there were any free Chinese learning resources online. Like you said, many of us never really had the drive to learn... especially in America where everything's in English (or Spanish... ).
San Francisco also has a huge Chinese community, but almost all the ABCs spoke English... or at least some kinda mangled Chinglish...

I like you also had many resources available... and really it's the parents forcing me to use only Cantonese at home that's kept me at least at the kiddie level. I also was forced to take the Chinese classes... but of course being the ignorant American I chose not to pay much attention in class and soon forgot everything once they ended. Now that I'm physically in HK am I regretting that.

I'm glad to be able to meet some local students as well... that definitely helps with the learning. I'm glad to hear that you really prepared yourself before coming out here... Wish I did the same.
I'll definitely be checking out those sites!

[Jeska]

Argh! I'm in the same situation. Born and raised in Sydney, forced to go to Chinese school and could only speak Cantonese to my grandparents etc. But I never really took it seriously and only wanted to speak English. Fast forward to now and I'm embarrassed at how bad my Cantonese is!! I've only been in HK for 3 weeks and I sooo wish I was fluent, especially as I'd have more credibility at work!
I'm not sure I have the patience to take classes again, but am definitely forcing myself to use Cantonese rather than taking the easy way out all the time. And I'm making my work mates teach me!

[jimbo]

Yup its pretty tough for us overseas born chinese, Everybody assumes you know it fluently when you don't.

Sometimes I just say I'm korean as its much easier than trying to explain to them that I'm an overseas born chinese, knew Cantonese as a kid but not really many people I could speak to and practise with thus stuck with my english friends.

And also me being Hakka as well where the dialect is slightly different thus I end up switching between the two.

[muse07]

I am A(ust)BC too and will be moving to HK from Melbourne in a few weeks.

My new employers naturally don't mind that I am not fluent in Cantonese or Mandarin, but I told them I would be keen to learn both upon moving to HK as there are the big expectations based on appearance. I speak basic kiddy Cantonese and did a 1 yr accelerated course of Mandarin at university here which basically was for dialect speakers and crammed 2 years into one. I think that _BC's generally have a language advantage, especially if they grew up in an environment where they develop an ear for the right sounds, so would be interested to see what kind of options may be available.

I'm keen on late evening or weekend classes, as I expect I will be worked pretty hard at work! So.. any tips welcome, and I would also be interested in learning with other _BC's etc or just generally getting a feel for what it's like for BC expats in HK.