[PDLM]

Or on the other hand you might want to negotiate to be just given an equivalent sum of money - joining fees for somewhere like the HKCC run to HK$200K last time I asked, plus monthlies of HK$1200+.

[ontheroad]

Originally Posted by PDLM

Or on the other hand you might want to negotiate to be just given an equivalent sum of money - joining fees for somewhere like the HKCC run to HK$200K last time I asked, plus monthlies of HK$1200+.

But you'll probably end up getting neither, cause companies are more and more stingy....

[sbowra]

I don't think I'm alone in my opinion here. If you look into other treads, you will find that a lot of people complain about the same thing over and over again.

To answer to sunniefaith, I happened be born in quite a cosmopolitan family. We are well travelled since my grand father generation. My father works for the UN so I have lived in over 15 countries. How about you?

I never said I wanted to run away, I happen to know quite a few people who invest a lot of money into moving here and had to move back after 3 months. It is a sad situation that's all.

Should we tell the truth to those who's about to move or do we have to be politically correct at all cost?

I have my opinion, you have yours. I just share my opinion in this forum that is all.

[ontheroad]

I'm a third generation expat too, and have lived all around the world all my life. Since your experience is about the same, Sbowra, you must know how hard it is to move to a new country, to have to adapt to a whole new culture and a whole new world, to leave your friends behind and have to make new ones. That's why you should know better than to discourage people who are arriving to Hong Kong, most often not by personal choice but because they have to for work. For them it's not easy, and they don't want to hear negative things. They'll make their own opinion in their own time, but in the meantime, they need to hear the positive aspects, so as not to make the transition harder than it already is. Just because you don't like the place, doesn't mean she won't.
One of the great things about this forum is that it's a place to welcome newcomers, and make them feel at home, in a friendly community. It's also a place where people can complain and say what they don't like about Hong Kong, but I don't think those things need to air on posts where people ask for advice relating to their move here!

[sbowra]

To me I would rather know the whole truth than not. I wish I had someone telling me about these things before I moved to different countries so that I can prepare myself.

We are obviously different type of people. And I'm sure I'm not the one off.

At least I havn't attack anyone personally or being judgmental on any individual. What I did was to tell the truth. Take it or leave it.

I believe that everyone has a choice to move or not to move, no one can force you to move if you don't want to! And I also believe that they should know the full fact before they move.

I?m tired of this topic now. Can we move on please?

[carang]

actually, i agree, there's nothing wrong with telling the truth. what i think most of us have a problem with is that you made such a broad generalisation that was so culturally biased, that someone who doesn't know the place or anything about the culture might be put off.

perhaps you are offended by what you perceive to be a lack of manners. (i know, i sometimes get frustrated too and i'm married to a local!) however, what you need to consider is not what YOU consider to be rude behaviour, but what 99% of the local population consider to be rude behaviour. do you make a conscious effort to learn the local culture or do you live in Mid-levels, work in central, and go to soho or LKF every weekend and only dein (sp?) to lower yourself to the level of a local when absolutely necessary?

it is possible to stick your head in the sand culturally, no matter where you choose to live. but judging an entire city by YOUR (i'm guessing) European standards is not on. Reminds me of the "explorers" 500 years ago judging every new culture they met to be "savage".

[sbowra]

That I can accept. I don't really have a chance to mix with the locals. I TRIED, trust me. And now I give up. I actually had someone phisically ran away from me when my half chinese/half european friend tried to introduce that person to me. Her excuse is that she's too shy to speak english. I'm guess I won't know the real reason! And I am not ugly or fat!

[timklip]

actually sbowra, that was most likely the real reason that person ran away (tho that's a pretty extreme reaction!). avoiding loss of face is given so much importance here, and being misunderstood or not understanding someone speaking a non-native language can be a huge loss of face...please don't take it personally...next time try a little Cantonese! it never ceases to put a smile on strangers faces when i try my survival Cantonese out on them lol

[nina_70]

Just my own 2 cents. I live in a mostly chinese old building and I've found the locals to be very approachable. Granted, initially they wondered why I said hello everyday & were too shy to talk back, but now everyone says hello. I've even met the neighbours children, grandparents and some of the pets in the building. And believe me, my cantonese is terrible! I think it's a matter of approach & getting to know local culture.

Regarding question on joining clubs...there are more affordable options out there. For example Aberdeen Boat Club is $25K for membership entry, $15K if you're a sailing member with monthly fees around the $1,300 level (incl. $250 food and beverage).

[taihunggao]

Originally Posted by sbowra

That I can accept. I don't really have a chance to mix with the locals. I TRIED, trust me. And now I give up. I actually had someone phisically ran away from me when my half chinese/half european friend tried to introduce that person to me. Her excuse is that she's too shy to speak english. I'm guess I won't know the real reason! And I am not ugly or fat!

so you skinny & handsome then? shame on the nasty chinese person for running away from such a catch ;-)
Anyway, mixing with the locals is like meeting girls. If you TRY you are doomed. If you just relax and take people as they are you'll suddenly be a Hong Konger.
If you really want to meet some lovely locals live somewhere like Lamma or Kowloon City where there's far less gweilo/local divide and people just people.

And another four cents: HK seems lovely clean to me, cleaner than london....

and living expenses.... wow, you wealthy guys!!!! me & the dog managed (mostly) fine on HK$80k this year, even had a holiday in phuket :-)