[neily]

Hello to all,

I am a new member who has joined for less than 2 months. Hope everyone's doing great.

There is something I would like to share with you and hear your opinion. I have actually written this as a reply in the S'pore forum yesterday but I don't think the traffic there is as high, so I've copied and pasted this as a new thread here...

I am working for an MNC in Singapore and I've requested for a transfer to my HK office a few months back. I have a couple of years of experience in my field and a pretty good track record.

Initially, I perceived both cities to be largely similar - both being cosmopolitan, vibrant cities, with dynamic work culture and most evidently, Asian. My bosses and I all thought that there will be a good fit for me in the HK office.

Over the course of last few months, I had went through some rounds of interviews and ding-donging with a couple of senior personnel who sit in the HK office. Me being from a client-servicing industry, I thought that it will only be fair to both parties if I had stated my preferences and interests in types of accounts serviced.

Unfortunately, I realized (much later) that I had unwittingly stepped on one of the interviewer's toes when I blatantly pointed out that I wasn't interested in that particular a/c. The HK management's take is that for somebody of my level, I should not be choosy about accounts and that I should, accept with grace, if they feel that the role is suitable. In short, weeks after the interview, I was informed that they did not appreciate my forthrightness very well - and my strong personality and mention of accelerated promotion had even came across as arrogance!

This situation has really caught me unexpected, leaving me feeling totally perplexed. I admit that I am rather 'green' and do not have sufficient interviewing experience. But then again, I also believe that there was nothing wrong in being discerning and to cut to the chase by telling them what you really want. I always thought that it was quite usual to display confidence and try to 'sell' yourself during interviews, but right now, I guess that there are cultural differences between SG and HK and I should have put things across in a more indirect manner.

This has been a rather nightmarish situation for me. And dare I say it - I find this a tad unfair. But thinking from an employer's perspective, they probably concluded that there isn't a good fit between the candidate and the job.

So, out of curiosity, has anybody been caught in a similar situation before? Please share your two cents worth with me. It will be much appreciated.

Sadly, it seems that I've totally ruined my chances this time. But for those of you who are currently working in HK and were brought up overseas, do you have any pointers for me? I would like to avoid potential pitfalls in the future if I get interviewed by a HongKonger.

I believe that most of you here are expatraites who has experienced life in HK, thus I would like to hear everybody else's take on my situation. Frankly, I am still rather upset as I am typing this...

neily

[sylvesterjay]

The chinese culture, i've been told and have observed on some levels, does not confront issues directly. Read Myself a Mandarin, some entertaining insights into chinese thinking.

[KnowItAll]

I'll respond with a couple of things...

I don't think this is particularly related to being interviewed by a Hong Kong person. At the interview stages, it is better to focus on what you can do, rather than what you don't want to do. If you have a problem, present it with a solution.. not another problem. BUT, to be able to effectively present the solution in your case, I think you would have had to get the job first.

Next, my experience in working with Singaporeans has been way too much "no can" attitude and a serious lack of lateral thinking when it comes to err .. bending the rules and looking at the end game.

If you end game is to get the job, Hong Kong like a lot of places remains a place where you can easily shine and advance, if you have the cojones. Which means .. yes, unless you're like the only person who could possibly meet the requirements, you will have to say yes to a fair number of things which might seem to be unpleasant.

Sometimes when you're dealing with smaller teams, asking your hiring manager for a promotion schedule can be a bit problematic, as you might just be telling that person "listen, I'm so good, I'll have your job in about six months time and your bosses job in about a years time".

[freeier]

ya i don't think its a matter or culture (seems easy for ppl to blame a mistake/failure on cultural difference), but more a matter of how much you want the job and how willing you are to accept the less attractive stuffs that come along with the job.

frankly, singaporeans are brought up with a 'i am one of the best in the world' attitude. this is reflected by the leader's forever claim of being no1 in this and no2 in that. its only when one is out of the country then one feels how big the world is.

many of the younger generation thinks that they are out to conquel the world and even slight failure is not acceptable. they plan their life according to what they think life shld be, and usually unable to adapt to setback and changes along the way. you see singaporean companies with well defined doctrines and procedures, but the people tend to be less reactive when the going suddenly changes direction and forces one to adapt or react...

anwyay, u are still young, just take it as an experience and move on. there are tonnes of other jobs available, and u can always find a job in hk out of your current company. if you cannot get out of the comfort zone of being in somewhere familiar, of doing something that you 'plan' to do, then is it that great an idea to actually get out of hk to work ?

[back2HK]

I have a couple of years of experience in my field and a pretty good track record.

when I blatantly pointed out that I wasn't interested in that particular a/c. The HK management's take is that for somebody of my level, I should not be choosy about accounts and that I should, accept with grace, if they feel that the role is suitable.

Neily

Please read again the 2 statements above that you wrote...
I don't think that forthrightness is the issue. I suppose the HK management was pretty forthright in what they expect...

[neily]

KnowItAll and freeier,

Noted with thanks. I guess you had pointed out a couple of issues which happen to be my blind spot. (I wouldn't dare to say that for other Singaporeans though!)

Being quite 'green', I have to say that I am somewhat guilty of being self-centred and lacking a global perspective.

Anyway, I wasn't exactly blaming this glitch of mine on cultural differences. Rather, I would say that I recognise the fact that there are some differences in upbringing and thinking between people, and I am accepting it with grace. Meanwhile, I strive to perform better in the future.

I was talking to a much older friend of mine earlier on and we touched on this topic. His take is, unless you are truly not interested in the job/ company, then perhaps it is alright to be direct about it. Otherwise, it's more prudent to stay tactful and give yourself some leeway.

However, freeier, I feel that having a good fit with the job and getting out of the comfort zone are 2 separate issues. Say, I have no interest in automotive, but I am able work on FMCG accounts with indisputable passion. I am receptive to differences in work environment of the two cities, and my main reason for seeking a transfer is to increase exposure. By taking this step, I am already prepared to get out of my comfort zone. Nonetheless, I hope to engage in a win-win situation for both myself and the employer. I was discerning about the accounts that I would be required to work on, because it just isn't fair to my potential boss if I lack understanding towards a particular field and am unable to relate to the client's products/ services.

So in short, I do want to experience working life in Hong Kong, but a good fit with the job is critical.

Hope I'm making sense here.

neily

[sbowra]

I must say I am totally confused with the Hong Kong working culture myself.

My husband is in a senior position of the architectural firm, but not the director or assosiate levels. Ever since he joined the company, there was one Hong Kong staff who are about 1 level more senior than him got intimidated because my husband is a white european.

My husband once discovered that his report that he put on the director's in-tray was trown out by this guy who intentionally stayed late to do that, purely because my husband's report was done in the next to perfection, covers all the aspect that should have been covered by this guy himself. Instead of trying to improve himself, he sets out to try to get rid of my husband in more ways than one. By the way my husband found out about the above incident because he happened to forget the key, so he went back to the office. My husband did not confront him though.

My husband also had to basically go over this guy's head and got the job signed off by the client in the first 3 weeks of his starting date (he did it because one of the directors advice him to do so). By doing that it makes this guy looks pretty bad because he prefers to play along and drink tea with the client wasting company's time rather than stand up to the client and get the job signed off and the company gets pay quickly.

My husband has come to the end of his probation period and was shocked to find that the company wants to extend his probation period for another month! They can not give a clear reason to him of why.

This can't be right because he has done a good job for the company in his opinion, although he has to cross one of the senior staffs to get it done right. I'm not sure this is a common thing in Hong Kong that they can just extend the probation period, just like that. All of the directors favour my husband so far and see his potential in the company but I think it might be something to do with all of the management team needs to agree if someone should pass his probation period or not. Also it can not be because my husband doesn't do his job properly or has not got enough work to proof himself. The only thing this gu has is that he works there a bit longer than my husband and he is chinese. Where does my husband stand on this?

[Woodpecker]

Neily,

I don't think it about cultural differences here, the interviewer presented you with a job/account, you don't like it, of course you will be rejected. If you were in America or Europe, the result would be the same. If you really want to work in HK, you could've been more diplomatic and ask if there are other accounts you could work on. I don't think any employer likes to hire a choosy employee. What happen if there are new accounts, do they ask you if you want to work on one you like? In the really world, not all accounts are good fit, you just have to do the best you can.

Woodpecker

[Boris]

In any job, if you want to get on its a case of " the answer is yes, now whats the question".
Show willing , even for the dowdiest of jobs. It gets you noticed and moves you up.
NO is not a word that any employer wants to hear.
Head down and crack on guys!

[Jawni Hingh]

I can't speak for the work culture in Singapore, but I'm from the U.S. and I just spent a few weeks interviewing for positions in HK. I ultimately found a company I liked and got an offer; but I don't think it's a coincidence that the company that ended up working out is headed by a guy from the UK and not someone local, from HK.

I absolutely think that there is a difference in mindset and work culture between people from HK and those who were educated or grew up in "the West." My impression from my interviews with HK people (I mean local Chinese) was that they're much more direct; they think of themselves and their respective companies first and foremost, and have a general attitude of "this is what I have available... take it or leave it." While you can argue that there are people like this in every country -- not just in HK -- I'm inclined to say that here in the U.S., the job interview is as much about you interviewing the interviewer as it is about the interviewer interviewing you. In other words, it's a two-way discussion and the position needs to fit the candidate. I too was taught to express my own personal interests as it pertained to the job function (with elegance, of course) and to communicate to the potential employer what you like, what you're good at, and how you can help the company. I'm not surprised that the HK company reacted that way to the honesty. I got the same treatment/reaction during my interviews.

My feeling is that local Chinese in HK are taught to accept what employers have to offer and not question it... In general, Chinese people want things good and as cheap as possible; the same applies when they interview people for jobs. This made me angry too when I interviewed so I totally relate.

My personal opinion is that this is why HK workers are so miserable and under so much pressure and stress. It's because they weren't taught to be open with their bosses to express how they feel and tell them what's wrong. My potential new employer (the UK guy) told me the same thing -- that he's trying to teach his Chinese employees to open up more.

Anyway, I'm on Neily's side on this issue. I think she did the right thing to be frank about what she was not interested in. It doesn't help her nor the employer if she's not happy with the job. Maybe in HK because of the tough job market one would just suck it up and accept it, but I don't think it's acceptable.