[Pekkerhead]

Originally Posted by Andrew Melb

By the way "out" it is "chēut" not "chut". There are 51 finals in Cantonese, "-eut" and "-ut" being two of them. "-eut" is pronounced like the "ut" in the English word "utility" but with a very underemphasised "y" sound at the start. "-ut" is pronounced like the "oot" in the English word "foot".

Andrew - the key to remember with Cantonese is that when it is written using the English alphabet, they are romanised. There have been many romanisation systems over the years, each one proclaiming to be better than the other. So the spelling of a particular word as described above really doesn't matter. It may have just been spelt like that under a different romanisation system.

I am used to using 2 systems, Yale seems to be the most common form these days, but I also learnt most of my Cantonese from Sydney Lau, who used different spellings and numbers to determine tone type (hence why I say the spelling isn't that important - it is what the spelling implies which matters as set down by the romanisation system rules - problem is you need to know system it is to be able to interpret the spelling into the correct pronunciation).

At the end of the day Cantonese is first and foremost a spoken language - this may sound obvious, but the way Cantonese is used in speaking differs from the way it is written. This is a reason why I wouldn't bother learning characters just yet if your objective is to speak cantonese.

I will give afew examples:

Chinese newpapers use the character 'Ta' for him/her. This is the same word as used in Mandarin. However, when Cantonese speakers say him/her in speech they use another word - 'Kui'.

Cantonese say Hai m Hai, but it is read/written as Si Bat Si (Mandarin pron. is Shi Bu Shi).

Cantonese say Sik M Sik Gong, but it is read/written as Wui Bat Wui Suet (Mand. pron, Hui Bu Hui Shuo). Note this is the same Suet as you mentioned in your post and it means to speak. But Cantonese will always use Gong instead. The place where you may here Suet being said is on a news broadcast where they tend to use formal Cantonese - i.e. read out as it is formally written down without slang alternatives to words.

and so on and so on.

This is why many Mandarin Chinese speakers consider Cantonese very much full of slang - many of the words don't have proper chinese characters.

Your best bet is to get a decent book which has both romanised words and Chinese characters and get someone who can read and speak Cantonese Chinese to help you with your pronunciation. Once you have your initials and finals sussed you will find it a fairly easy language to pick up. Having a book with both words and Chinese cahracters is also a great way to learn to read the characters without having to make too much effort.

[sky2000]

Hello, I am a native Cantonese speaker. I am male. I can teach you Cantonese if you want.

[niccy]

Originally Posted by Pekkerhead

Andrew - the key to remember with Cantonese is that when it is written using the English alphabet, they are romanised. There have been many romanisation systems over the years, each one proclaiming to be better than the other. So the spelling of a particular word as described above really doesn't matter. It may have just been spelt like that under a different romanisation system.

I am used to using 2 systems, Yale seems to be the most common form these days, but I also learnt most of my Cantonese from Sydney Lau, who used different spellings and numbers to determine tone type (hence why I say the spelling isn't that important - it is what the spelling implies which matters as set down by the romanisation system rules - problem is you need to know system it is to be able to interpret the spelling into the correct pronunciation).

At the end of the day Cantonese is first and foremost a spoken language - this may sound obvious, but the way Cantonese is used in speaking differs from the way it is written. This is a reason why I wouldn't bother learning characters just yet if your objective is to speak cantonese.

I will give afew examples:

Chinese newpapers use the character 'Ta' for him/her. This is the same word as used in Mandarin. However, when Cantonese speakers say him/her in speech they use another word - 'Kui'.

Cantonese say Hai m Hai, but it is read/written as Si Bat Si (Mandarin pron. is Shi Bu Shi).

Cantonese say Sik M Sik Gong, but it is read/written as Wui Bat Wui Suet (Mand. pron, Hui Bu Hui Shuo). Note this is the same Suet as you mentioned in your post and it means to speak. But Cantonese will always use Gong instead. The place where you may here Suet being said is on a news broadcast where they tend to use formal Cantonese - i.e. read out as it is formally written down without slang alternatives to words.

and so on and so on.

This is why many Mandarin Chinese speakers consider Cantonese very much full of slang - many of the words don't have proper chinese characters.

Your best bet is to get a decent book which has both romanised words and Chinese characters and get someone who can read and speak Cantonese Chinese to help you with your pronunciation. Once you have your initials and finals sussed you will find it a fairly easy language to pick up. Having a book with both words and Chinese cahracters is also a great way to learn to read the characters without having to make too much effort.

PHead, sounds like you have some decent studies on both the cantonese and mandarin, and that kinda remind me of the TVB gweilo actor. He's REALLY GOOD in mastering the language! He sings too!

Anyway, I have once bought a Canto book, which I consider it quite good amongst the rest at Page One, for a friend of mine who has very good potential in cantonese who's originally from Montreal. That's the only book I would recommend so far and unfortunately I forgot the name (Haha!!!) It's red in color and it's only around a 100 bucks.

-n

[zeroth]

niccy, i bought a book too and it's partly read.
maybe this one?
http://www.amyleunglanguage.com/imag...rcopy_thb1.jpg

[Pekkerhead]

I've mentioned it on other threads - but my favourite is the sydney lau series written in the 50's + 60's.

The vocab is extremely comprehensive, the drilling is top notch and it really clues you in on the best way to learn (i.e. repetition, repetition and more repetition).

Plus every word in there has the chinese character and the book is structured in such a way as to make it very easy to start recognising characters straight away.

Problems - Canto is evolving all the time and some of the words and phrases used in Lau are no longer in common usage (quick example - calling someone 'Mung Cha Cha' - which means 'stupid' - and using coming to HK by boat as an example of common form of travel!!!). The books were created for British Civil Servants.

The other Major problem is that these books have been out of print for quite some time and locating copies will be a pain (think they were last printed in ther mid 90's?). There are 6 books - 3 volumes of 2 books each - elementary, Intermediate and advanced.

If you see these books snap them up as they may be the best investment you can make in learning cantonese.

[niccy]

Originally Posted by zeroth

niccy, i bought a book too and it's partly read.
maybe this one?
http://www.amyleunglanguage.com/imag...rcopy_thb1.jpg

YES, that's the one i recommend.
how do you like it?

[meemiathai]

Originally Posted by Pekkerhead

Andrew - the key to remember with Cantonese is that when it is written using the English alphabet, they are romanised.
//snipped//

Well written, Pekkerhead.

But want to point out

The place where you may here Suet being said is on a news broadcast where they tend to use formal Cantonese - i.e. read out as it is formally written down without slang alternatives to words.

you will hardly hear the word 'Suet' anywhere apart from a primary school kid reading a book out. On a news broadcast the word 'Wa' would be used.

[Raymond Ng]

I am a cantonese speaker, who can help you out for the pronunciation of Cantonese. Feel free to drop me a line. hkgoodbye@yahoo.com.hk

[Andrew W Scott]

Hey Niccy

I've seen that Amy Leung book around the shops but I think the reason I didn't buy it was it didn't use the Yale romanisation system, and that's the one I've become used to. Maybe I should buy it.

[Andrew W Scott]

Originally Posted by Pekkerhead

Andrew - the key to remember with Cantonese is that when it is written using the English alphabet, they are romanised. There have been many romanisation systems over the years, each one proclaiming to be better than the other. So the spelling of a particular word as described above really doesn't matter. It may have just been spelt like that under a different romanisation system.

I am used to using 2 systems, Yale seems to be the most common form these days, but I also learnt most of my Cantonese from Sydney Lau, who used different spellings and numbers to determine tone type (hence why I say the spelling isn't that important - it is what the spelling implies which matters as set down by the romanisation system rules - problem is you need to know system it is to be able to interpret the spelling into the correct pronunciation).

At the end of the day Cantonese is first and foremost a spoken language - this may sound obvious, but the way Cantonese is used in speaking differs from the way it is written. This is a reason why I wouldn't bother learning characters just yet if your objective is to speak cantonese.

I will give afew examples:

Chinese newpapers use the character 'Ta' for him/her. This is the same word as used in Mandarin. However, when Cantonese speakers say him/her in speech they use another word - 'Kui'.

Cantonese say Hai m Hai, but it is read/written as Si Bat Si (Mandarin pron. is Shi Bu Shi).

Cantonese say Sik M Sik Gong, but it is read/written as Wui Bat Wui Suet (Mand. pron, Hui Bu Hui Shuo). Note this is the same Suet as you mentioned in your post and it means to speak. But Cantonese will always use Gong instead. The place where you may here Suet being said is on a news broadcast where they tend to use formal Cantonese - i.e. read out as it is formally written down without slang alternatives to words.

and so on and so on.

This is why many Mandarin Chinese speakers consider Cantonese very much full of slang - many of the words don't have proper chinese characters.

Your best bet is to get a decent book which has both romanised words and Chinese characters and get someone who can read and speak Cantonese Chinese to help you with your pronunciation. Once you have your initials and finals sussed you will find it a fairly easy language to pick up. Having a book with both words and Chinese cahracters is also a great way to learn to read the characters without having to make too much effort.

Hey Pekkerhead

Thanks for your long and informative post. Actually I think I did see the Sidney Lau series around somewhere, maybe I should have got it. But I was concerned that it was old and also didn't use Yale romanisation which I have now gotten used to.

I already have about 12 books on Cantonese. What do you think? Should I get the Sidney Lau series if I see it?

Cheers
Andrew