[theABC]

Hello, I'm going to be going to HK this December. I plan to apply for ROA four questions.

1) Do my parents need to be there when I apply as the sponsor? I plan to use my mom as the sponsor because she has current HKID. Both my parents were born in HK. I was born in the States.

2) With an ROA, can I travel freely back and forth to China with the the HKID? Or do I need the secondary "wui heung jing"?... or whatever it is called...

3) Can I work in the PRC indefinitely with HKID? With the "wui heung jing"?

4) when summoned for the interview after processing, what type of time frame do I have after I'm notified? I will most likely have to fly back to HK so I will some advance notice... wondering how much?

perhaps the last question... are HK employers more likely to employ me because I don't need them to sponsor me a visa?

Thanks.

[Aritaurus]

Originally Posted by theABC

Hello, I'm going to be going to HK this December. I plan to apply for ROA four questions.

1) Do my parents need to be there when I apply as the sponsor? I plan to use my mom as the sponsor because she has current HKID. Both my parents were born in HK. I was born in the States.

2) With an ROA, can I travel freely back and forth to China with the the HKID? Or do I need the secondary "wui heung jing"?... or whatever it is called...

3) Can I work in the PRC indefinitely with HKID? With the "wui heung jing"?

4) when summoned for the interview after processing, what type of time frame do I have after I'm notified? I will most likely have to fly back to HK so I will some advance notice... wondering how much?

perhaps the last question... are HK employers more likely to employ me because I don't need them to sponsor me a visa?

Thanks.

I just got my RTL -- Right to Land last week. I was applying for Right of Abode before but they told me it couldn't be established because I haven't been settled in Hong Kong before 1997 and I haven't been there long enough. I'm a CBC -- Canadian Born Chinese. If you weren't settled in Hong Kong before 1997, I think your case is just like mine. You'll get a Hong Kong Identity card that says "RO" -- R implicating that you have the Right to Land and O implicating that you were born overseas. You'll be able to work, study and not be subject to any condition of stay in Hong Kong. The only difference between this an the Right of Abode is that they have the right to deport you if you commit any serious crimes.

As for your questions:

1) If you're over the age of eighteen and your parents have their updated Hong Kong Permanent Identity Cards, your parents don't need to be present at the time of your application. You'll need to have their Hong Kong Permanent Identity cards, their landing papers to the USA, a passport showing their immigration status in the USA at the time you were born, your parent's naturalization certificates to the USA and all old passports showing the old departure and arrival stamps to Hong Kong since you were born. When I applied, I had to bring all these with me. I didn't have everything at the time so my parents had to Fedex them to me at the time of my application.

2) You won't be able to enter China with your Hong Kong Identity Card alone. One advantage is that you no longer have to fill in departure/arrival cards at Hong Kong Immigration checkpoints. If you're at Lo Wu entering Shen Zhen for instance, you won't have to present your passport to the Hong Kong immigration officer and you may just proceed to the PRC side.

You're still going to need a VISA on your USA passport when entering the PRC. Having the Hong Kong Identity Card with the Right of Abode or Right to land only gets you through the Hong Kong immigration checkpoints. You'll still have to go through normal immigration procedures once you're in China. You can't get the Home Return Permit if you're not a Chinese citizen. From the information you provided, you acquired USA nationality at the time you were born so you're not considered a Chinese citizen. The only way you can get a Home Return Permit is if you gain the ROA in Hong Kong after 7 years of continuous residency and apply for naturalization as a Chinese national -- you'll have to renounce your USA citizenship for this.

3) I don't have a Home Return Permit so I don't really know the answer to this question.

4) Once you lodge your application, they should send you a letter acknowledging that they have received your application withing a week or two and it will tell you what additional documents you need to bring before they make their decision. My advice is to bring all these documents (originals) to the immigration tower ASAP so they can approve you sooner. It was going in and out of Hong Kong a lot so they process took about a month before I got my Right to Land.

I think you should be ok employment. This is under the employer's discretion. There are some jobs that require you to be a Hong Kong Permanent Identity Card holder -- probably government related jobs. Other than that, I don't think you should have any problems finding a job with Right of Abode of Right to Land dispite not having Chinese citizenship.


Anyways, I hope this helps. I went through a lot of trouble getting my Right to Land and all I can say is that I'm proud to have my very own Hong Kong Identity Card now. Good luck to you have I hope you can enjoy the same benefits !

[theABC]

interesting... are you parents still considered to be Chinese Nationals? Where your parents considerec Chinese nationals when you were born?

Reading here, http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/faq_roaihksar.htm

Per response (c), which then leads to (a) in my case

My parents where Chinese Nationals born in HK, and I was born in the states.. I should be capable of receiving ROA provided my parents are still Chinese Nationals.

so I went to look up Chinese nationals.

http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/topical_3_9.htm

Under Article 9 Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalized as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.

However, here is a contradicting statement,

http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/topical_3_3.htm

stating that they need to declare change of Nationality to no longer be a Chinese citizen.

So now because my parents are no longer Chinese citizens, I am not entitled to ROA? Or merely because they didn't denounce Chinese nationality, they are still Chinese citizens?

Has your parents denounced Chinese citizenship? Where your parents American citizens when you were born? Or did they have US permanent resident status (green card) when you were born?


another thing complicates this, my dad doesn't have the updated PIC. Only my mother does.

I think I will just go apply when I'm in HK and bring whatever documentation I can. Birth certificates, my parents PIC, marriage certificates, etc etc...

[theABC]

I think in a nutshell, all xBC's born to parents who were born and bred in HK are entitled to ROA, but only if their parents are still considered Chinese Nationals... the big question to to determine if you're parents are still considered Chinese nationals by the HK Gov.

The person who gives the opening examples is providing a flawed case, as they obtained ROA before 1997, which laws changed.

http://beta.geoexpat.com/forum/thread1318.html

further more the ruling 1999 has further affects on immigration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_o...sue,_Hong_Kong

but the alas, the article does not provide hard topical issues of immigrations, but rather a reporting of the overall issues at hand.

also another similar case, resulting in a RTL, where he thought he should have gotten ROA. His parents had not returned to HK in over 25 years, and their first return was after 1997. The author was born in sweeden, a definite xBC. Yet his parents being 3star holders having full Chinese national status, he was only given RTL. Either (a) the author missed some details or (b) my interpretation of immigration issues (above) is incorrect. I thought the author should have gotten 3 start according to my interpretation.

Chances to get 3-star HKID for swedish born HK-chinese?

[Aritaurus]

Article 5 Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality.

This applied to me at the time I made my application. My parents were already Canadian citizens at the time I was born. In other words, they were settled abroad-- settled meaning that they have been granted unconditional stay in a foreign country. If your parents had greencards at the time you were born, you're automatically not a Chinese national dispite the fact that they have not formally renounced their Chinese citizenships. If your parents haven't made any declaration of change for nationality, they're still considered Chinese citizens -- just that it can't be transferred to you at the time you were born based on the fact that they were settled in the USA at the time you were born.

There's a lot of ambiguity with the loss of Chinese citizenship. I'm guessing once your parents acquire a foreign nationality, they automatically loose their PRC citizenship but not their ROA, hence the fact that they have not declared any declaration of change for nationality. My parents were already Canadian citizens at the time I was born so according to Article 9, they should have lost their PRC citizenships but at the same time, they still have their PICs with ROA stated on the back. ROA is only a permanent resident status. It does not implicate citizenship to the PRC.

I have heard about people who were XBCs and have declared that they have returned to settle in Hong Kong before the establishment of the HKSAR in 1997 and were granted ROA as long they're not absent from the HKSAR for more than 36 months continuously. They would have to come back to Hong Kong at least once every three years. The person born in Sweden settled in Hong Kong after the establishment of the HKSAR so he will only have the Right to Land.

If your parents were not holding green cards at the time you were born and were subject to a limit of stay on VISA, you are a Chinese citizen at birth. You'll have to have proof in order to establish that. Only Chinese citizens born in Hong Kong can have the Right of Abode permanently regardless of how long they have been absent from the HKSAR. Thinking back, I really wish I was born in Hong Kong. It would be a lot easier for me to have the Right of Abode without question.

If I still had the letter documenting the reason why I can't enjoy the ROA in Hong Kong, I would scan you a copy since your case is very similar to mine. By the looks of it, you're only eligible for the RTL. It's not bad. After 7 years of continuous residency, you'll have the ROA. With the RTL, you can still use the e-channel to get through Hong Kong immigration checkpoints just like any other Hong Kong Permanent Identity Card holder. You have all the rights as PRC Hong Kong citizens except for the right to vote and you'll they can deport you if you commit any serious crimes.

I think you should contact the immd before you go to Hong Kong so you can get a list of documents to bring beforehand. It took me a month before I got my RTL and that was because I had to wait for my dad to fedex me all the documents.

[theABC]

i wish I can delete or edit those previous posts I did. With more research and my own application case and my sisters, I've determined what I said above is

* W R O N G *

I will post my results and my sisters shortly. After the whole gamut in the last few months, I think I finally understand it... at least 90% of the whole process.

[cybernator]

this is interesting.
i am in the same situation as Aritaurus, but my application was declined based on Article 5.
As my parents were settled abroad at the time of my birth, I am NOT considered as a Chinese Citizen and therefore not eligible for any card (ROA/RTL)

So Aritaurus can you provide some extra information?
Did your application got through the first time already?
I can go the the Registration of Persons (ROP) office for a formal determination, but I need to know how to make a good argument for my eligibility.
Did you apply under category c? Or should I make it clear that my parents did not declare a change of nationality at the time of my birth?

[youngjediboy]

Same situation as you guys... xBC and got the RTL.

At the immigration office, the officer said that the RTL is actually better because there's no time limits/contraints! For a ROA, you'd have to naturalize after 7 years and then after have to worry about not being away for 3 years. With RTL, we can still travel and work in HK freely WHENEVER!

Like stated, the main difference between RTL and ROA/3 stars is not getting to vote and getting deported for serious crimes... but if you don't vote and don't do anything stupid, you're fine!

Also as foreign citizens none of us can get the Home Return Permit for PRC anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Cyber, that's weird because none of us are considered Chinese Citizens but we should be able to at least get the RTL and ID card. Were both your parents HK born and immigrated to another country, then came back and both now have the updated HKSAR passports and ID cards?

[cybernator]

yes, I think I should be eligible for the RTL too.... , since both of my parents have their updated HK cards.
So just re-apply and hope that a different officer will come to a different conclusion???

[youngjediboy]

Yeah... I guess that's all you can do for now. Did you have to go in person at all or was it all dealt over the mail?